At 248k, I went to a '10 460L
#16
I do in my 2011 but it doesn't bother me. I only hear it when I don't have any radio on and I am sitting in the car in a parking lot. I know that the 460's are not as quiet as the 430's but they are really different cars. I made the switch back in june-july and I've been really happy. Sure I miss my 430 sometimes but the 460L was a great upgrade.
#17
The LS460 has gotten such bad press for so long post LS430 (2007+) until 2013, I can't see buying a used one regardless of the appealing prices. I'm not here to bash LS460 owners but realize that Lexus got it right with the LS400 and LS430 but problems did occur with the LS460 and a used car may not bring that comfort level for reliability that the LS430 has for so many years. Just my opinion. Still holding on to my 01 LS430 until it or me dies.
#19
I listen to a lot of sports talk radio in the morning and on the way home. It was very noticeable. But I think the ticking I experienced was worse than most. There was something they tried to fix, but I can't remember what it was. Tried to forget. And you are correct. They really are very different cars.
#20
For me I will say I was skeptical at first moving from the 430 model to the 460 model. I had no issues with my 01 LS430 up to 190K miles and had no issue with my 2006 that I traded for my 460L in june. However, after doing all the research it seemed to me that most of the issues were corrected on the 10+. I knew about the control arm and the brake actuator issue and bought according to model year. Yes, I do think that the 430 was pretty stellar with very few growing pains but I think the 460 is similar. Just like not everyone had the transmission issue in their 2004 LS430 that many reported, not everyone on the years affected with the control arms or brake actuator has had that issue either. Seems like a hit or miss. We hope we picked the right car and will have no issues. However, some are to be expected as cars seem to get more and more complicated these days. In the ideal world I guess I would have a really low mileage LS430 and my 460L but unfortunately I don't have the garage space to house my entire LS addiction so I had to settle on the 460L
#22
Lexus Fanatic
I tend to agree, except for the electronics, it seems that the "hardware" of many cars are better 9+ years ago, probably peaking around 2008...today, the hardware can be lessened, with more aggressive software being deployed to put out the same numbers...but like anything else, nothing comes for free, and there's nothing you can hold, for very long (that's from a song)....
(I always say look at the spectacle of the Beijing Olympic games--that cannot be and will never be duplicated again, the world economy was a gigantic bubble at the time)
(I always say look at the spectacle of the Beijing Olympic games--that cannot be and will never be duplicated again, the world economy was a gigantic bubble at the time)
#23
I wonder if Toyota's push during the 2000's to be the world's #1 automaker had something to do with it. Sometimes quality control suffers when companies try to grow too fast.
#24
For me I will say I was skeptical at first moving from the 430 model to the 460 model. I had no issues with my 01 LS430 up to 190K miles and had no issue with my 2006 that I traded for my 460L in june. However, after doing all the research it seemed to me that most of the issues were corrected on the 10+. I knew about the control arm and the brake actuator issue and bought according to model year. Yes, I do think that the 430 was pretty stellar with very few growing pains but I think the 460 is similar. Just like not everyone had the transmission issue in their 2004 LS430 that many reported, not everyone on the years affected with the control arms or brake actuator has had that issue either. Seems like a hit or miss. We hope we picked the right car and will have no issues. However, some are to be expected as cars seem to get more and more complicated these days. In the ideal world I guess I would have a really low mileage LS430 and my 460L but unfortunately I don't have the garage space to house my entire LS addiction so I had to settle on the 460L
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Not sure about Toyota as this is my first Toyota product--I like that parts are made in Japan. Anyway, in general, there seems to be an assumption that everyone leases. This wasn't the case as recently as 10 years ago. One could say, if the majority are leasing, what would be the point of building a car that lasts 20 years on the road? I've got coworkers who seem to be very adept with leasing--they get a new BMW 550i, and 7 mos. later they got a new BMW 340i, then a couple months later the new 5 comes out and they have that on order. To me, being old fashioned, I envision $30k growing wings and flying away. They say not so, the deals are so good? Beats me, if I can't afford to buy it, I don't want it. But this is an old fashioned concept. People don't understand why I feel uptight when my credit card bill reached over $6k last month. Because I refuse to pay interest and pay in full every month. I couldn't stand it and paid a $4k statement off 10 days early--just can't stand debt. Lost just under $1 in interest, peace of mind is worth that. So anyway, if Toyota ratcheted down the longevity, it's understandable as people don't really want long lasting cars as much as they did before...imho
#26
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/01/recor...-vehicles.html
edit to add: BTW, good on you for saving your hard earned dough. Some people just always want to have the latest and the greatest. In those cases, leases probably do make sense but you will always have a monthly payment with that arrangement. I couldn't stand that...
#27
Moderator
This wasn't the case as recently as 10 years ago. I've got coworkers who seem to be very adept with leasing--they get a new BMW 550i, and 7 mos. later they got a new BMW 340i, then a couple months later the new 5 comes out and they have that on order. They say not so, the deals are so good?
Good on you indeed for saving your money and staying away from leases and debt in general. Cash money in your pocket is king.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 03-10-17 at 08:26 PM.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Why do you say this? I couldn't easily find newer data but according to this article from June 2015, 31.5% of new vehicles financed were leased. Even if that value has increased since then, probably slightly, still a far cry from everybody leases...
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/01/recor...-vehicles.html
edit to add: BTW, good on you for saving your hard earned dough. Some people just always want to have the latest and the greatest. In those cases, leases probably do make sense but you will always have a monthly payment with that arrangement. I couldn't stand that...
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/01/recor...-vehicles.html
edit to add: BTW, good on you for saving your hard earned dough. Some people just always want to have the latest and the greatest. In those cases, leases probably do make sense but you will always have a monthly payment with that arrangement. I couldn't stand that...
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...d-pack-104834/
However, this states that overall, about a year ago, leasing was
http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...erts-are-split.
31.4% @ $404/mo
So it does sound like 30%'ish is accurate across all cars, but much higher when talking about luxury cars. The 2011 data says 40.6 for the LS, back in 2011....
I'm a fool for cash rewards points, so everything goes through my 2% credit card, even work.....work I can confidently know that I'll be reimbursed, but it still bothers me when I see the balance going up so high. I also am pretty confident that this is viewed negatively by FICO. Imagine if one carried a balance, and then needed to use their card to expense something for work....not sure if work reimburses for interest paid, doubt it....
Anyway if upgrading, I would be looking for the sweet spot and likely used now going forward, so the OP seems to have found that through his extensive research....
#29
Racer
Very good points...I went looking to see if I could find something where I had formed this opinion, I think it's this.....
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...d-pack-104834/
However, this states that overall, about a year ago, leasing was
http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...erts-are-split.
31.4% @ $404/mo
So it does sound like 30%'ish is accurate across all cars, but much higher when talking about luxury cars. The 2011 data says 40.6 for the LS, back in 2011....
I'm a fool for cash rewards points, so everything goes through my 2% credit card, even work.....work I can confidently know that I'll be reimbursed, but it still bothers me when I see the balance going up so high. I also am pretty confident that this is viewed negatively by FICO. Imagine if one carried a balance, and then needed to use their card to expense something for work....not sure if work reimburses for interest paid, doubt it....
Anyway if upgrading, I would be looking for the sweet spot and likely used now going forward, so the OP seems to have found that through his extensive research....
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...d-pack-104834/
However, this states that overall, about a year ago, leasing was
http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...erts-are-split.
31.4% @ $404/mo
So it does sound like 30%'ish is accurate across all cars, but much higher when talking about luxury cars. The 2011 data says 40.6 for the LS, back in 2011....
I'm a fool for cash rewards points, so everything goes through my 2% credit card, even work.....work I can confidently know that I'll be reimbursed, but it still bothers me when I see the balance going up so high. I also am pretty confident that this is viewed negatively by FICO. Imagine if one carried a balance, and then needed to use their card to expense something for work....not sure if work reimburses for interest paid, doubt it....
Anyway if upgrading, I would be looking for the sweet spot and likely used now going forward, so the OP seems to have found that through his extensive research....
EDIT: I couldn't find the specific quote by Mark Fields, but the following Edmunds article (and attached PDF summary) points to leasing cresting 60%(!) for entry luxury vehicles, and still over 50% for luxury vehicles in general:
https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...dmundscom.html
Sorry for going off on tangents, JR/OP.
Last edited by FatherTo1; 03-12-17 at 08:50 AM.
#30
Not sure about Toyota as this is my first Toyota product--I like that parts are made in Japan. Anyway, in general, there seems to be an assumption that everyone leases. This wasn't the case as recently as 10 years ago. One could say, if the majority are leasing, what would be the point of building a car that lasts 20 years on the road? I've got coworkers who seem to be very adept with leasing--they get a new BMW 550i, and 7 mos. later they got a new BMW 340i, then a couple months later the new 5 comes out and they have that on order. To me, being old fashioned, I envision $30k growing wings and flying away. They say not so, the deals are so good? Beats me, if I can't afford to buy it, I don't want it. But this is an old fashioned concept. People don't understand why I feel uptight when my credit card bill reached over $6k last month. Because I refuse to pay interest and pay in full every month. I couldn't stand it and paid a $4k statement off 10 days early--just can't stand debt. Lost just under $1 in interest, peace of mind is worth that. So anyway, if Toyota ratcheted down the longevity, it's understandable as people don't really want long lasting cars as much as they did before...imho