Bob04

I listen to a lot of sports talk radio in the morning and on the way home. It was very noticeable. But I think the ticking I experienced was worse than most. There was something they tried to fix, but I can't remember what it was. Tried to forget. And you are correct. They really are very different cars.

Bocatrip

The LS460 has gotten such bad press for so long post LS430 (2007+) until 2013, I can't see buying a used one regardless of the appealing prices. I'm not here to bash LS460 owners but realize that Lexus got it right with the LS400 and LS430 but problems did occur with the LS460 and a used car may not bring that comfort level for reliability that the LS430 has for so many years. Just my opinion. Still holding on to my 01 LS430 until it or me dies.

Johnhav430

Me, Mr. Big Shot V8 only, I'll be driving a 2022 LS200 4 cyl. turbo (the 1.9 liter high output version). when my son graduates HS in 2032.....

LS430FL

If you are hearing some sort of noise when you are actually driving with a radio on at speeds greater than say 20-25mph then that is not a normal sound. Only any LS460 that I have driven it is only audible in a silent car with very low speed driving. I hope they were able to fix whatever issue it was.

LS430FL

For me I will say I was skeptical at first moving from the 430 model to the 460 model. I had no issues with my 01 LS430 up to 190K miles and had no issue with my 2006 that I traded for my 460L in june. However, after doing all the research it seemed to me that most of the issues were corrected on the 10+. I knew about the control arm and the brake actuator issue and bought according to model year. Yes, I do think that the 430 was pretty stellar with very few growing pains but I think the 460 is similar. Just like not everyone had the transmission issue in their 2004 LS430 that many reported, not everyone on the years affected with the control arms or brake actuator has had that issue either. Seems like a hit or miss. We hope we picked the right car and will have no issues. However, some are to be expected as cars seem to get more and more complicated these days. In the ideal world I guess I would have a really low mileage LS430 and my 460L but unfortunately I don't have the garage space to house my entire LS addiction so I had to settle on the 460L ​​​​​​​

lextout

seems like after the 08 recession quality control took a detour.

Johnhav430

I tend to agree, except for the electronics, it seems that the "hardware" of many cars are better 9+ years ago, probably peaking around 2008...today, the hardware can be lessened, with more aggressive software being deployed to put out the same numbers...but like anything else, nothing comes for free, and there's nothing you can hold, for very long (that's from a song)....

(I always say look at the spectacle of the Beijing Olympic games--that cannot be and will never be duplicated again, the world economy was a gigantic bubble at the time)

Bob04

I wonder if Toyota's push during the 2000's to be the world's #1 automaker had something to do with it. Sometimes quality control suffers when companies try to grow too fast.

tallcaguy

You're right, a bad reputation for some part/process isn't a guarantee that you'll have a problem. I have an 04 LS. Production date after the recalled cars. Did need the TSB done but shifts perfectly.

Johnhav430

Not sure about Toyota as this is my first Toyota product--I like that parts are made in Japan. Anyway, in general, there seems to be an assumption that everyone leases. This wasn't the case as recently as 10 years ago. One could say, if the majority are leasing, what would be the point of building a car that lasts 20 years on the road? I've got coworkers who seem to be very adept with leasing--they get a new BMW 550i, and 7 mos. later they got a new BMW 340i, then a couple months later the new 5 comes out and they have that on order. To me, being old fashioned, I envision $30k growing wings and flying away. They say not so, the deals are so good? Beats me, if I can't afford to buy it, I don't want it. But this is an old fashioned concept. People don't understand why I feel uptight when my credit card bill reached over $6k last month. Because I refuse to pay interest and pay in full every month. I couldn't stand it and paid a $4k statement off 10 days early--just can't stand debt. Lost just under $1 in interest, peace of mind is worth that. So anyway, if Toyota ratcheted down the longevity, it's understandable as people don't really want long lasting cars as much as they did before...imho

Gronemus

Why do you say this? I couldn't easily find newer data but according to this article from June 2015, 31.5% of new vehicles financed were leased. Even if that value has increased since then, probably slightly, still a far cry from everybody leases...

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/01/recor...-vehicles.html

edit to add: BTW, good on you for saving your hard earned dough. Some people just always want to have the latest and the greatest. In those cases, leases probably do make sense but you will always have a monthly payment with that arrangement. I couldn't stand that...

Jabberwock

Folks that talk this way about leasing most often and quite ironically don't have even a faint understanding of how leasing actually works and frankly have a tenuous grasp on basic economics. They make decisions solely based on what the car salesman tells them they can afford in terms of monthly payments. These perpetual leasers who are getting supposedly great deals and frequent newer cars eventually run out of room on the monthly payment ramp and end up so far upside down on the lease that their own personally created leasing bubble collapses. Then it's time for either bankruptcy court, or if they are lucky, drive a $700 beater for 10 years.

Good on you indeed for saving your money and staying away from leases and debt in general. Cash money in your pocket is king.

Johnhav430

Very good points...I went looking to see if I could find something where I had formed this opinion, I think it's this.....

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...d-pack-104834/

However, this states that overall, about a year ago, leasing was

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...erts-are-split.

31.4% @ $404/mo

So it does sound like 30%'ish is accurate across all cars, but much higher when talking about luxury cars. The 2011 data says 40.6 for the LS, back in 2011....

I'm a fool for cash rewards points, so everything goes through my 2% credit card, even work.....work I can confidently know that I'll be reimbursed, but it still bothers me when I see the balance going up so high. I also am pretty confident that this is viewed negatively by FICO. Imagine if one carried a balance, and then needed to use their card to expense something for work....not sure if work reimburses for interest paid, doubt it....

Anyway if upgrading, I would be looking for the sweet spot and likely used now going forward, so the OP seems to have found that through his extensive research....

FatherTo1

I do believe you're correct, John. I recall reading an article in 2016 that stated the lease rate is actually 50% on luxury cars, and the trend continues to climb. That was a reasonable conclusion to me because I had wondered who can possibly afford the high prices on these new cars?!?! Of course, there will be folks that can afford to buy new without having to live out of a shoe but, in general, even mainstream vehicles can crest $40K and some trucks will cost more than an LS! Seems the only way to afford a car for the majority of people would be to lease if they want the latest and greatest. Probably also why the CEO of Ford, Mark Fields, predicts a slowdown in auto sales for the industry this year. More lease returns than normal will enter the market and saturate supply, and also pretty difficult to keep setting new sales records every year. I believe 17 million cars sold last year, a new record. I will find the links to both articles later and try to remember to post back.

EDIT: I couldn't find the specific quote by Mark Fields, but the following Edmunds article (and attached PDF summary) points to leasing cresting 60%(!) for entry luxury vehicles, and still over 50% for luxury vehicles in general:

https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...dmundscom.html

Sorry for going off on tangents, JR/OP.

tallcaguy

Agree on don't buy if you can't afford. Good idea to pay in full every month. It's too easy to spend with plastic. Have a friend that just hit 75k w cards.