At 248k, I went to a '10 460L
03-12-17, 11:44 AM
#31
I do believe you're correct, John. I recall reading an article in 2016 that stated the lease rate is actually 50% on luxury cars, and the trend continues to climb. That was a reasonable conclusion to me because I had wondered who can possibly afford the high prices on these new cars?!?! Of course, there will be folks that can afford to buy new without having to live out of a shoe but, in general, even mainstream vehicles can crest $40K and some trucks will cost more than an LS! Seems the only way to afford a car for the majority of people would be to lease if they want the latest and greatest. Probably also why the CEO of Ford, Mark Fields, predicts a slowdown in auto sales for the industry this year. More lease returns than normal will enter the market and saturate supply, and also pretty difficult to keep setting new sales records every year. I believe 17 million cars sold last year, a new record. I will find the links to both articles later and try to remember to post back.
EDIT: I couldn't find the specific quote by Mark Fields, but the following Edmunds article (and attached PDF summary) points to leasing cresting 60%(!) for entry luxury vehicles, and still over 50% for luxury vehicles in general:
https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...dmundscom.html
Sorry for going off on tangents, JR/OP.
EDIT: I couldn't find the specific quote by Mark Fields, but the following Edmunds article (and attached PDF summary) points to leasing cresting 60%(!) for entry luxury vehicles, and still over 50% for luxury vehicles in general:
https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...dmundscom.html
Sorry for going off on tangents, JR/OP.
03-12-17, 02:34 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
It's that old advice that we get from CPA buddies....there are 3 places your money will go when you pass. Your heirs, charity, and the IRS. Their job is to reduce the IRS portion.
Now, if you have no heirs, then all that's left is charity, and the IRS.
Charity is a personal thing, and subjective...the IRS is not, we all consider them to be an entity to which we do not want to give. I will say that I filed an amended return last year, for 2013, and they paid me what I was due, plus interest. My mistake, and they paid interest to me. Interesting concept.
So yes, I think debt is like floodgates, once we embrace it, it will explode to some astronomical amount...if unsecured, like credit cards, they shouldn't be able to get it....I have thought what if, but I keep on truckin' with what my dad taught me, hard to break that habit.
And so, I think going to a '10 460L is along the same lines, trying to maximize bang for buck, like we do with our 3rd gens...otherwise heck, just sign and drive a LS500!
Now, if you have no heirs, then all that's left is charity, and the IRS.
Charity is a personal thing, and subjective...the IRS is not, we all consider them to be an entity to which we do not want to give. I will say that I filed an amended return last year, for 2013, and they paid me what I was due, plus interest. My mistake, and they paid interest to me. Interesting concept.
So yes, I think debt is like floodgates, once we embrace it, it will explode to some astronomical amount...if unsecured, like credit cards, they shouldn't be able to get it....I have thought what if, but I keep on truckin' with what my dad taught me, hard to break that habit.
And so, I think going to a '10 460L is along the same lines, trying to maximize bang for buck, like we do with our 3rd gens...otherwise heck, just sign and drive a LS500!
03-12-17, 11:07 PM
#33
Racer
Hey long time no see. Any luck w/ the 460 search? Here's my follow up on transmission shift issues (6 vs 5). I've driven 5k since the 2nd D/F. The shifts aren't completely invisible but they are very smooth. Nothing can match the 5 speed but I'll take the 6 speed for acceleration and gas mileage improvement.
The search for a 460 continues into month five. I was thiiiis close to closing the deal on a 2013 SWB last month but the seller got cold feet the night before the bank appointment and he backed out. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. In the meantime, I'm still racking up trouble-free miles in the 430. Just had an oil change two days ago at 64,600 miles.
03-13-17, 07:40 AM
#34
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Heyyy, how's it going, tallca? Glad to hear the 6-speed us treating you well. I have given up trying to get our 6-speed to shift like the 5-speeds. I will live with the relatively smooth (just not impressive) shifting.
The search for a 460 continues into month five. I was thiiiis close to closing the deal on a 2013 SWB last month but the seller got cold feet the night before the bank appointment and he backed out. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. In the meantime, I'm still racking up trouble-free miles in the 430. Just had an oil change two days ago at 64,600 miles.
The search for a 460 continues into month five. I was thiiiis close to closing the deal on a 2013 SWB last month but the seller got cold feet the night before the bank appointment and he backed out. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. In the meantime, I'm still racking up trouble-free miles in the 430. Just had an oil change two days ago at 64,600 miles.
Then 2 weeks later as my wife and I were driving to Miami for the weekend, I did a quick search in south FL and found the 2010 460L that I bought. I saved myself around $11k (granted I got a car that was 2 years older, 30k more miles and non-CPO) and found a car that I'm comfortable with. It wasn't my first color preference, but I actually had never seen this particular color and my wife didn't like silver 460's yet loved the color of this one. Happy wife, happy life.
In the end, it's easy to be patient when you have a luxury tank like the 430.... especially when you only have 64k on the clock.
03-13-17, 09:25 AM
#35
Racer
I admire (and can relate to) your patience- I read in the 4th Gen forum about your deal falling through at the 11th hour. But I also admire and can relate to your perspective of "not meant to be"- I had this happen to me a few times in my 2 years or so of kicking tires on 460's. Most recently, about 2 weeks before I found and bought my 460L I saw a mercury metallic sport pop up in Orlando (where I live)- was listed as 2012 CPO, 34k miles with asking price of $32k, but had "coming soon" and no pictures. I called the dealership to ask if I could come see it - was told it was getting detailed and going through inspection process. I asked if I could put a deposit down to hold the car and was told I couldn't do that until the car was approved and ready to be fully listed. I think my interest in the car was mainly due to the color (silver was my 1st choice) and the low miles combined with CPO. I went out of town for a few days and kept checking online to see if pics had been posted, but nothing ever came of it. After 10 days of still seeing "vehicle coming soon", I noticed they dropped the CPO from the listing, but left the price the same. I called around 9am (opening time) to see if the car was about to hit the lot, and was told it had finished the inspection process the night before and someone bought it. At first, it made me angry that I had missed out and somewhat felt the dealer went around their rules of not selling the car until it was fully ready, but then I came to the realization it wasn't for me. I definitely wasn't sold on the Sport model being right for me and once they dropped the CPO label I became concerned about why a car with such low miles couldn't meet CPO standards.
Then 2 weeks later as my wife and I were driving to Miami for the weekend, I did a quick search in south FL and found the 2010 460L that I bought. I saved myself around $11k (granted I got a car that was 2 years older, 30k more miles and non-CPO) and found a car that I'm comfortable with. It wasn't my first color preference, but I actually had never seen this particular color and my wife didn't like silver 460's yet loved the color of this one. Happy wife, happy life.
In the end, it's easy to be patient when you have a luxury tank like the 430.... especially when you only have 64k on the clock.
Then 2 weeks later as my wife and I were driving to Miami for the weekend, I did a quick search in south FL and found the 2010 460L that I bought. I saved myself around $11k (granted I got a car that was 2 years older, 30k more miles and non-CPO) and found a car that I'm comfortable with. It wasn't my first color preference, but I actually had never seen this particular color and my wife didn't like silver 460's yet loved the color of this one. Happy wife, happy life.
In the end, it's easy to be patient when you have a luxury tank like the 430.... especially when you only have 64k on the clock.
I went to drive a 2013 F Sport yesterday. Actually, I was under the impression it was a white standard SWB. It had just been listed yesterday morning at an MB dealership. Turns out they used a stock photo and had some details wrong. I arrived to find a black F Sport with 39K miles, for $45K. I told them black was definitely out of the question and they asked what if the price was right, would black still be out of the question? My internal dialogue still says no to black, due to cultural reasons, but I test drove it anyways. Glad I did because the half-inch lower springs made the car stiffer at all driver settings. I really didn't like it and now I know the F Sport isn't for me. Saves me from driving 2 hours to San Francisco to inspect another F Sport that was tempting based on a price of $35.5K.
Look forward to hearing more about your experience in your new 460L, JR. Happy motoring, my friend.
Last edited by FatherTo1; 03-18-17 at 07:02 AM.
03-13-17, 11:15 AM
#36
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Thank you, JR. Wow, I can't believe your experience with that dealer, especially since they knew you were interested and were checking on the status regularly. That is definitely curious what haplened to the CPO label on that 2012. Glad to hear both you and your wife are lovin' the Smokey Granite Mica. Yours is a great story of how smoothly things fall into place when it is meant to be.
I went to drive a 2013 F Sport yesterday. Actually, I was under the impression it was a white standard SWB. It had just been listed yesterday morning at an MB dealership. Turns out they used a stock photo and had some details wrong. I arrived to find a black Friday Sport with 39K miles, for $45K. I told them black was definitely out of the question and they asked what if the price was right, would black still be out of the question? My internal dialogue still says no to black, due to cultural reasons, but I test drove it anyways. Glad I did because the half-inch lower springs made the car stiffer at all driver settings. I really didn't like it and now I know the F Sport isn't for me. Saves me from driving 2 hours to San Francisco to inspect another F Sport that was tempting based on a price of $35.5K.
Look forward to hearing more about your experience in your new 460L, JR. Happy motoring, my friend.
I went to drive a 2013 F Sport yesterday. Actually, I was under the impression it was a white standard SWB. It had just been listed yesterday morning at an MB dealership. Turns out they used a stock photo and had some details wrong. I arrived to find a black Friday Sport with 39K miles, for $45K. I told them black was definitely out of the question and they asked what if the price was right, would black still be out of the question? My internal dialogue still says no to black, due to cultural reasons, but I test drove it anyways. Glad I did because the half-inch lower springs made the car stiffer at all driver settings. I really didn't like it and now I know the F Sport isn't for me. Saves me from driving 2 hours to San Francisco to inspect another F Sport that was tempting based on a price of $35.5K.
Look forward to hearing more about your experience in your new 460L, JR. Happy motoring, my friend.
I was just in the Bay area the last few days for a Napa trip- we brought the FL sunshine with us! Nothing like 75 and sunny in Napa, San Fran and Sausalito! Saw lots of beautiful cars- including a ridiculous lineup at a high end resort in Napa that had a 460L, 570, and 2 RX's (actually it may be 1 RX and 1 NX) as their "hotel shuttles". They were all brand new and nebula gray... Of course I took a pic.. Talk about nice!
03-13-17, 12:35 PM
#37
Racer
Great photo, JR! Where is that place exactly? We are about 1.5 hours from Napa but have never ventured out to there on account that neither of us drink. Perhaps we will travel out to Napa in the near future to enjoy the sights.
03-13-17, 02:51 PM
#39
Pole Position
Thread Starter
It was Hotel Bardessono in Yountville- we walked there from our hotel for breakfast one day. Highly recommend you take a day trip and drive to Napa- especially now. Everything is blooming and is absolutely gorgeous. I have been there in July and October, but never been in March (too scared of being rained out). Never seen some of the trees and flowers looking the way they did over the last few days. Stunning- and a great excuse to get out in your LS and find a good lunch spot (there are tons) in St Helena, Yountville, Calistoga, Napa, or Sonoma. The drive between Napa and Sonoma is breathtaking. You don't have to drink to appreciate the incredible landscape and winding roads of wine country.
03-13-17, 02:54 PM
#40
Pole Position
Thread Starter
After a couple years of tire kicking, I found non-CPO '10's and '11's (in my market) with 60k miles listed for about $24k to $28k. I think you can haggle $2k-$4k depending on how the car is priced. If going CPO, add $2k and you'll be forced into an '11 (not a bad thing). These cars tend to be competitively priced in FL due to the age demographic.
03-13-17, 05:56 PM
#41
I bought my '10 LS460L with 65k miles 2 weeks ago for $22,700 (plus tax, no dealer fee). You should be able to shave a few hundred bucks off of that for a SWB. Keep in mind I didn't buy CPO (age of the car would've prevented it - but I also bought from an Audi dealership so had no chance either way).
After a couple years of tire kicking, I found non-CPO '10's and '11's (in my market) with 60k miles listed for about $24k to $28k. I think you can haggle $2k-$4k depending on how the car is priced. If going CPO, add $2k and you'll be forced into an '11 (not a bad thing). These cars tend to be competitively priced in FL due to the age demographic.
After a couple years of tire kicking, I found non-CPO '10's and '11's (in my market) with 60k miles listed for about $24k to $28k. I think you can haggle $2k-$4k depending on how the car is priced. If going CPO, add $2k and you'll be forced into an '11 (not a bad thing). These cars tend to be competitively priced in FL due to the age demographic.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts of the 460L vs your previous 430 in a couple months. I've been very content over the years, but doesn't take much to knock me off the fence.
03-13-17, 08:49 PM
#42
Agree 100%. Just heard the ticking sound for the first time this morning- radio was off and I had just finished a phone call. I had never heard it before because I always have music playing. Def not as quiet at idle as a 430 or 400, but I find it to be substantially quieter while driving (road noise is more isolated) at any speed. I think the windows isolate sound better and the car is probably better "sound-proofed" than the 430 and 400 (I've owned both). As an LS-loyalist, my thought is I better get used to the sound- I don't really have any intentions of leaving the family for a while so could easily see myself in a '13+ bodystyle in the next 3-5 years and I know the sound is there as well. The only car that is more quiet at idle than the 400 and 430 is a hybrid or Tesla- and I could def be tempted into a Tesla but not willing to fork over that kind of dough based on how much I drive. So, I'll live with the ticking sound at idle for the other benefits I feel I received in the move to the 460L.
One odd thing I miss about my 430 is I had an 04 that I never upgraded the ECU on - so my car wouldn't downshift when I was going down hills. I kinda liked the "coasting" effect of that compared to a 460 which technically is doing things the "right way" (as that shifting issue was fixed on '05's and beyond).
One odd thing I miss about my 430 is I had an 04 that I never upgraded the ECU on - so my car wouldn't downshift when I was going down hills. I kinda liked the "coasting" effect of that compared to a 460 which technically is doing things the "right way" (as that shifting issue was fixed on '05's and beyond).
03-13-17, 08:51 PM
#43
I bought my '10 LS460L with 65k miles 2 weeks ago for $22,700 (plus tax, no dealer fee). You should be able to shave a few hundred bucks off of that for a SWB. Keep in mind I didn't buy CPO (age of the car would've prevented it - but I also bought from an Audi dealership so had no chance either way).
After a couple years of tire kicking, I found non-CPO '10's and '11's (in my market) with 60k miles listed for about $24k to $28k. I think you can haggle $2k-$4k depending on how the car is priced. If going CPO, add $2k and you'll be forced into an '11 (not a bad thing). These cars tend to be competitively priced in FL due to the age demographic.
After a couple years of tire kicking, I found non-CPO '10's and '11's (in my market) with 60k miles listed for about $24k to $28k. I think you can haggle $2k-$4k depending on how the car is priced. If going CPO, add $2k and you'll be forced into an '11 (not a bad thing). These cars tend to be competitively priced in FL due to the age demographic.
03-14-17, 04:39 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
(on my other forum kids can't get their heads around the range, seriously, it's like a what oil do you use, I get better mpgs with premium, and should I bed the brakes thread--never ending lol)
03-14-17, 12:11 PM
#45
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I know prices fluctuate across the country- that is VERY steep for the FL market. Late last summer I almost bought a 2012 CPO, completely loaded mercury metallic SWB that had 35k miles and the asking price was $32k at local Lexus dealer. The only pocket of FL where the pricing seems to be "high" is Jacksonville. Every car I saw online in Jacksonville that had similar mileage to others I was looking at would be $3k-$5k more expensive. Central FL, and especially south FL (both coasts) are hot beds for LS's. Lots of money and lots of old people = high supply.