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I did my 3rd transmission service at the local dealer Friday. my first was at 95,000 and second at 96,500. that was over 2 years ago. I now am approaching 127,000 miles and plan to do 1 service every 30,000 miles. not as aggressive as you, but hopefully enough for the transmission to last as long as the engine. I think after 3 drain & refills you could have gone much more than 50,000 miles. I wish I could see the condition of the fluid at certain miles but have not been able to do so. are your miles in Houston city traffic? most of my mileage is between Lubbock and a small farming community 25 miles away. I average 44 mph and usually get about 23.5 miles per gallon. also drive to Corpus Christi or Dallas as often as I can. hope to keep this car running for a few more years.
My daily commute to work is a bit less than 40 miles round trip. Mostly highway driving but I'd say about 25% of the miles spent in stop-and-go traffic. I will recheck the ATF in 50,000 miles, but I'm hopeful that it will last 100,000 miles. We will see!
The repair manual recommends that ATF level must be adjusted at specified temperature range, namely between 115 degF and 130 degF. I wanted to confirm the significance of this recommendation, so I put some ATF in a measuring class at 80 degF, and then pop it in the microwave for a minute and see if the level would change. My experiment is not precise, but it proves the point that ATF expands quite a bit with temperature. See for yourself...
I did not use the hand pump for this DIY, instead, I decided to use a funnel connected to the clear tubing (that came with the pump) to pour the ATF from the engine bay. Between D&R's, I tucked the funnel/tubing aside in the engine bay and left the lower end hanging free near the refill hole.
Thanks for the writeup. I would also prefer using the funnel vs the hand pump. Let gravity do the work for you.
A couple of more questions:
1) Since you had the front of the car raised but not the rear when you did your drain & fill, were you still able to get the roughly 3.2 quarts of fluid out of it each time?
2) How did you access the overflow plug for the last step without the car raised? Midget? Incredible shrinking ray gun?
3) Do you think that running the car for only a couple of miles between changes was good enough to get a thorough mix?
1) Since you had the front of the car raised but not the rear when you did your drain & fill, were you still able to get the roughly 3.2 quarts of fluid out of it each time?
The drain plug is located towards the rear of the transmission pan, so jacking up the front of the vehicle helped with getting the most ATF out. My three D&R's took about 10 quarts of ATF.
Originally Posted by Gronemus
2) How did you access the overflow plug for the last step without the car raised? Midget? Incredible shrinking ray gun?
In Step 4 (see Post #9), I mentioned that while you have the car on jack stands, to loosen the overflow plug for easy removal later. With my car parked on level surface, I can lie on my back (parallel to the passenger-side of the car) and reach in with my right arm under the car to access the overflow plug. It is about 30" from the side of the car, roughly aligned with the front edge of the passenger door. My car has a 7" ground clearance at that location.
Originally Posted by Gronemus
3) Do you think that running the car for only a couple of miles between changes was good enough to get a thorough mix?
Yes. After each refill, I start the car and move the shift lever through all the gears to circulate new ATF to the shift solenoids before I go for a 3 minutes drive. I believe most of the "mixing" occurs at the torque converter.
How did you access the overflow plug for the last step without the car raised? Midget? Incredible shrinking ray gun?
I would not consider myself a midget, but admittedly, a smaller-than-average 5' 8", 170 lbs guy. I can see that for an above-average person, the ground clearance may present a problem. One of the cheap-and-dirty solutions would be to buy four of these $1 concrete blocks and slip them under each of your tires.
For those of us lucky enough to have air suspension, simply set the car to maximum height, which will give you ample ground clearance to perform the ATF level check.
So, is this done all at once, or are there a recommended amount of miles to drive between changes?
I am not aware of a recommended schedule for drain-and-refill.
The key point to remember is that the ATF level is adjusted "dynamically". The proper level depends on overall viscosity (thickness) of the new/old ATF mixture, performance of the ATF pump, buildup in all the passages and channels, condition of the ATF strainer, etc.
Ideally, you would check/adjust the ATF level anytime you alter the mixture, at least for "long-term" operations. For this DIY, I wanted to skip the level adjustment steps between the three D&R's, and only did it once at the end. From here, I probably will not check on it again for another 50,000 miles. Here comes the REAL reason for me to do three D&R all at once, I'm too lazy to clean-up and put-things-away three times.
Some people may decide to do the D&R a week apart (or some other duration). Unless you plan to take a 1,000+ miles trip in between D&R's, I don't really see any problems with doing the level adjustment just once at the very end.
Another reason to check ATF level at the specified temperature range is Viscosity, or "thickness" of the ATF.
At lower temperature, the WS ATF has higher viscosity so more of it is clinging to the gears and passages, and less is drained back into the pan. If more ATF is added based on this false-low, the transmission will be over-filled. The graph below shows that Type T-IV ATF is even more vulnerable to viscosity change relative to temperature.
I was looking through some of the data files that I had gathered in the past from Techstream and found a parameter titled "A/T Oil Temp from ECT". Is this the parameter that the Lexus tech is going to use to determine fluid temperature? The value in this particular file is 185.0F which is what I'd guess the coolant temperature is close to. I've got an infrared thermometer on hand so perhaps when I get around to doing mine I'll see if there is any correlation between the two.
This whole process seems fairly straight forward and not too difficult to do. Where did you pickup your fluid from?
Thanks, this is really helpful. My indy did D/F#1 (probably cold, drained, same amount replaced). Dealer did D/F#2 (by temp). Said indy overfilled by 1/2 quart. Maybe just expansion. In the picture, guesstimating that expanded level is 125 ml which is almost 5%. I did 1k between D/F's. Should probably do a 3rd. Have the same IR heat gun so I can check ATM temp. Just curious. Thanks. Your input and expertise are much appreciated!
That's very interesting as you say....just from what I remember from physics, it would seem that if a car is warmed to temp, and 1.0 qt is drained out warm/operating temp, if room temp fluid 1.0 qt. is returned, it is more than what came out. Seems to be supported in the thread. When there is a dipstick, one would probably replace less, dunno, maybe 0.8 qt. But then the temp can be brought up and level adjusted via the dipstick, without much hassle. With no dipstick, the check valve would be used, and that means being under the car and pumping in....which is difficult while keeping the car level...
Again, my indie is not one at all to discourage DIY, that's why he said you can do it at home, only it can be a little difficult keeping the vehicle perfectly level, and getting the fluid the right temp, and also pumping in while it's flowing out.
It would also seem that some DIY'ers have not followed the procedure and have not had any consequences. But it's just me, I'd rather pay the $86, and I can assure you I'm not rich....just see the value....
I was looking through some of the data files that I had gathered in the past from Techstream and found a parameter titled "A/T Oil Temp from ECT". Is this the parameter that the Lexus tech is going to use to determine fluid temperature? The value in this particular file is 185.0F which is what I'd guess the coolant temperature is close to. I've got an infrared thermometer on hand so perhaps when I get around to doing mine I'll see if there is any correlation between the two.
This whole process seems fairly straight forward and not too difficult to do. Where did you pickup your fluid from?
The ATF is routed to the radiator for cooling, so I would expect its temperature to be slightly higher than that of the coolant.
I agree with all the other comments----RKW, this is an awesome write-up. I can tell you spent a considerable amount of time with write up and pictures and diagrams and documentation! A HIGH QUALITY WRITE-UP!
Questions-------have you ever dropped the pan and replaced the transmission filter? No desire to replace the filter on this go around? Have you ever changed the filter? Do we know if the transmission pan gasket is reusable?
I've been sitting on an OEM tranny filter wanting to do some drain and fills but am a little apprehensive, because of the temperature measurements and slightest variations negatively affecting the vehicle.
I'd think dropping the pan result in slightly more of a drain than the 3.2 qts in your write-up? Obviously one would drop the pan only for the 1st of multiple drain and fills, to only gain access to the filter.
The 04-06 LS430 does not have a ATF filter. Instead there is a mesh strainer at the oil pan. Metal particles from wear are captured by pieces of magnets attached to the oil pan. There is not really any good reasons to drop the pan other than to access/replace parts.
The 04-06 LS430 does not have a ATF filter. Instead there is a mesh strainer at the oil pan. Metal particles from wear are captured by pieces of magnets attached to the oil pan. There is not really any good reasons to drop the pan other than to access/replace parts.
Thanks for the reply RKW. Well, since I've already purchased the 'filter', when I replace it, looks like I'll simply have stronger magnets than the 12+ year old magnets in my 'filter'!
I learned something today too! Never knew the filter/strainer had built in magnets!!! Typically, the magnet is on the drain bolt!
06-25-17, 04:52 PM
