Johnhav430

dang it's not at all rocket science like I thought...but this was my wife's SUV, has a dipstick. Car has 72k, and the fluid was BLACK. But now I also see black is not a death knell--it is super slippery and not burnt at all. I would like to do it 3X but I even wonder if necessary....maybe 3X total, but since I started at 72k, maybe in 6 mos, then another 6 mos., not sure. I think 5 qts out of 12 came out--since I don't think old fluid is bad, then it is not a super rush to exchange it 3X....the Japanese indie showed me the LS430 fluid after drain #2 and it was black. Now I realize nothing to worry about just because of the color....it looks almost like oil, but to me, way thinner...this is Dexron VI

Johnhav430

BMW7_LS430

One with dipstick is very easy. Not much difference between oil change and ATF Change except for only getting partial drain.
An engineer who designed transmission without dipstick is a dipsheet.

Johnhav430

I have to admit, 5 qts. came out, I put 4 2/3 in, to try to factor in warm vs. cold. I must have checked the fluid at least 6X adding as little as possible, until I finally added the entire 1/3 qt. The tranny was never super hot, meaning we drove about 6 miles incl. stop/go, when I checked it 2X. This would really translate into a very hard to do situation with the sealed trannies. Also, I feel there has to be some tolerance, maybe as much as 1 qt., which is why even with motor oil, I always try to add in increments of 1/4 qt. if adjusting the level, to try to prevent an overfill condition.

Here's what I was also thinking. If you want to do 3 drain/fills, start them early, so when you reach the 3rd, you are at the mileage where you wanted a complete exchange (even though it's likely 20% old left). Again, my reasoning is that if the old stuff is not bad, then I don't want to do drain/fill #2 right away. The fluid is about $7/qt (I managed sales at $4-$5), so it's a real waste to do it again say next weekend....still unsure what to do but I can't do it right away, waiting.....and the fluid is pinkish on the dipstick right now, so I doubt it fully mixed yet, cuz the old is black...

tallcaguy

Car has 111. I've had 2 D/F's done. My indy (Lex master technician) did the first (102) exchanging equal amounts. I drove for an hour to get there so ATF at temp. Equal amounts is fine IF same temp. The dealer did the 2nd (103). Told me it was overfilled by 3/4 quart. I want to do D/F #3. Is the overfill an issue if replaced w/ in 500 miles? How long does it take for ATF to cool down so "equal amounts" works?

If I do this again with another LS, I'll have my indy do #1 and #2 (80 each) then the dealer do #3 (ridiculous price). How long between each D/F?

tallcaguy

Sorry this subject was covered very well with full technical details by rkw last year. Good argument for looking before asking. My experience just confirms that temperature and expansion rates do make a big difference. Wish I could DIY but not an option these days.

bradland

The hour drive is why you were overfilled by .75 quart. WAY too hot for measurement purposes!!! It only takes about 7 min, from cold start, to warm up to the desired temp. for measuring. Not sure how long it takes to cool down as that would be much harder to pin down...

tallcaguy

Agree! I've got a heat gun. Optimal temp range is 115-130 for measuring. However, can I just have my indy wait until the trans is cold start temp and have him do an equal exchange? Or pay a lot more and have the dealer take care of it? DIY isn't an option.

Changing the ATF is def worth the headache (or cost). Noticeable improvement w/ DF#2 (dealer). Invisible shifts. Of course, 47.9% new ATF helps. Thanks RKW for the technical details. I've waited too many miles but time for #3.

bradland

I'd be skeptical to trust a heat gun as you are measuring the temp of the external side of the pan not the fluid itself.
I can only assume your Indy left his employ with Lexus before WS became the norm...? I would hope he stays on top of new fluids and procedures.
Express your concerns with him and let him know last time he over filled. Ask him to pull the overflow plug, after the refill, in your presence when the car is at the proper temp.
If this doesn't sound logical you could always try a local Toyota dealer as they have the proper tools.

tallcaguy

Thanks for the feedback on the heat gun. I'm pretty comfortable w/ my indy. Both he and his brother are Lex certified. Years of dealer experience. Shop is immaculate. Excellent reputation. One owns a 430. On my last visit, there was a 460 in the next bay. That said, I'm not sure how careful he was with temps and measurements on the DF. Probably dealer time. Lex and Toyota dealer are about the same drive time and price. You'll LOL. Locally there's a perfect 06 Blue Onyx LS430 w/ 75. Asking 16. If it had the Sports Pkg I'd buy. Time/cost to convert not worth it.

Johnhav430

There seems to be more rocket science to it than I had thought......confound it! Went to look at the car this AM and there was a drop of fluid clinging to the plug. The plug is not like a drain plug, it's really nothing more than a bolt. I do have a brand new one I got on eBay for $2, but did I use it? No, I used the old one. The new one I believe has thread sealant already applied. DOH!

So now I seem to have a couple of choices, quickly swap the plugs and replace what came out, or do another 5 qt. job. I feel the 5 qts. is a waste because of the cost, and wanting it to mix over some miles, and that the old fluid was not done yet.

Here's a pic that I found online on how the plug looks....see the yellow sealant? eBay is so weird, I got it from a Chevy dealer $2, new in a GM bag, shipped. Now the cheapest is $5.75? And walmart can do it to the store for $3.87? lol

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ACDelco-8...-Plug/46947357

tallcaguy

So I took my car to the Lexus dealer to have them do the #3 D/F. Car has 111. Basically my service advisor didn't want to do it. Nice guy and has been quite helpful in the past. Today he wanted me to go home. Lexus policy is to not change the fluid. Period. He seemed to be particularly concerned about cars that come in w/ shifting problems (rough shift, flares, etc). The policy is that the change will makes things worse or possibly cause failure. Had the shop manager drive the car. His opinion was that the transmission had zero problems and the change was preventive maintenance. They're going to check the fluid. If it's red, they'll do the DF. If not, no DF. They will not however warranty the work. Whatever. When I had them do the change last year, none of the resistance.
Also have an 2017 ES350 loaner. Lots of plastic and zero sense of luxury. My wife's 330 is so much better. Same with the new LS series vs my 430. The 430 is a big comfortable well built luxury car. Wonder if the prices for the nice ones will keep climibing? There really isn't anything with the combination of high end build and reliability.

Johnhav430

Ever fix something for yourself, but in your mind you are hesitant to do it for someone else? I think this is Lexus' position. They are "scared" that if they touch your tranny, and 1 yr. from now your tranny fails, they are on the hook (has anybody actually used a warranty like that, I have not).

I asked the Japanese indie if touching my tranny could damage it, and he said, "At your mileage, NOT A CHANCE." That was at 82k I think?

I was thinking, say a indie garage did my wife's GM. It's not rocket science. But what if they, like me, had never done it before, and they simply reused the same drain plug without sealant? And what if, I'm not the type to look underneath? Then, there will be a slow drip. Maybe 1 yr. later, the fluid is low and the tranny fails or prematurely burns up.

I really wish the LS430 (well my year) had a dipstick. It is so ancient in many ways, unfortunately the "sealed" tranny isn't so. Drain plug with dipstick, SO EASY.....even though the fluid is expensive, I think I can get 3 drain/fills done on my wife's for under $80....

edit p.s. doubtful imho your fluid will be red after 2, that's like 31% old (again that's the chart, I don't get it if 2.5 comes out). I saw mine after the 2nd drain fill (55% old) and it was black. I saw my wife's after one drain/fill and it was brownish with pinkish in light, and the dipstick on a paper towel has a hint of pink--which is why I feel that if 3, yes, back to red). My wife's was a lot closer to being brown than the Lexus, which was pitch black. Again, that is not a death knell, it's the smell....

tallcaguy

Got my car back from dealer. ATF was a darker red so they did #3 D/F. Have a sample in a plastic salsa cup (w/ lid). It's now on the kitchen counter. Looks like salad dressing so have to make sure my wife doesn't pour it on the greens tonight. Shifting is pretty much invisible when driving moderately. Quick shifts under hard acceleration. When I bought the car, shifts were sometimes noticeable. I wondered if it was the 6 speed (vs the ultra smooth 5). Now there's very little difference.

My service advisor says the older Lexus cars/trucks are impossible to beat for quality and reliability. His wife drives a 430. She tried a new ES350 and couldn't stand it. I asked a salesman if he could recommend anything that was comparable quality to the older cars. He whispered to me that the new models just aren't as luxurious. LOL he used to drive a 430 and regrets ever selling it.

bradland

Glad that turned out to be a positive experience !