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I just posted this on the 4Gen LS forum and thought fellow 3Gen owners might be interested too:
Below is a link to a AAA report comparing wet traction when tires are new versus at 4/32". The report is fairly current from June 2018 and includes two models of particular interest -- Pirelli P7 Plus and Michelin Premier AS. Granted, the tests are on a 2017 Camry but still interesting nevertheless. The P7+ and Premier are within 5-ft of each other in wet stopping distance when new but the P7+ needed almost 60 feet more distance to stop at 4/32" compared to the Premier AS. I never felt the P7+ was lacking in wet traction but these results are astonishing. Wet traction is not the defacto criteria for tire purchase but it seems the P7+ and Premier AS are already very close in all other performance aspects. I don't like that the Premier AS is more expensive and starts at only 8.5/32" when new. However, after seeing these results I might just switch to the Premier AS next time I need tires and experience the difference for myself.
Good point, RRocket, but page 14 of the linked study does specify the P7 Plus. I don't know why AAA didn't spell out the whole name in the table charts, there certainly was room for it. Then again, they didn't spell out the full name of every tire in the tables.
About two months ago local Walmart was closing down and have tires with 50% discount. I was very close to buy P7 Plus after reading good reviews on them. I usually buy Michelin, never buy Pirelli but the price was really good. I would not be happy if I bought them and then saw this report.
About two months ago local Walmart was closing down and have tires with 50% discount. I was very close to buy P7 Plus after reading good reviews on them. I usually buy Michelin, never buy Pirelli but the price was really good. I would not be happy if I bought them and then saw this report.
Happy to share and help, BCT. I have had the Pirelli P7 Plus on both an LS 430 and LS 460 and honestly they are excellent tires -- quiet, very comfortable ride, grips well in the dry or wet (despite TireRack's wet ratings). I still think they're an excellent tire choice and perform very close to the Premier AS, except wet traction ratings. For a 50% sale I would be very happy with the Pirelli P7 Plus. I used to buy Michelin tires exclusively for over 20+ years but the last few years I have noticed the Primacy and Defender only lasted half as long as their rated treadlife on our ES 330 and Sienna. In the 1990s, my Michelins always lasted beyond the tread warranty but cars were also a lot lighter back then. Besides, Michelin will pro-rate the treadwear anyways. In 2017, the Premier AS was not available for the LS 430 or LS 460, at least not in the 18" or 19" sizes and so I went with the P7 Plus and have no regrets. I experimented with a Premier LTX in 235/50/R18 once because the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ were the worst Michelin tires I ever had and made the LS 430 ride very stiff. The Premier LTX was too bouncy though (since it is made for an SUV) so I went with the P7 Plus. The P7 Plus is typically cheaper than the Premier AS, up to $50 less per tire. I would still trust the P7 Plus but will try the Premier AS next time I need tires. Hope that helps.
FWIW, I have the Premier 205/65/15 on my 05 Camry. At 3/32 I still have good grip in wet weather cornering and resistance to hydroplaning on the hwy. I got the car with 225k miles on it everyone told me the tires where worn out(3 different Toyota dealers). I have 238 k miles now and they still are safe maybe 8.5 tread depth U should expect to run em to 2/32 safely?
FWIW, I have the Premier 205/65/15 on my 05 Camry. At 3/32 I still have good grip in wet weather cornering and resistance to hydroplaning on the hwy. I got the car with 225k miles on it everyone told me the tires where worn out(3 different Toyota dealers). I have 238 k miles now and they still are safe maybe 8.5 tread depth U should expect to run em to 2/32 safely?
Sorry, warminwisc, I didn't quite follow all of that. What was the starting tread when you purchased the Camry? Are you saying it went from 8.5/32 to 3/32 in 13,000 miles? Just trying to figure out if the Premier gets close to its rated tread life.
I got the car and owner told me prolly needed new tires. I doubt it had 4/32 when I bought it. I drove from 223ish k miles to 238 ish k miles and the tires have been just fine in the rain when I am always told the tires need replacing. Changed dealership when my service guy moved to another dealership and my wife ran out of gas got towed to a toyota dealer 30 miles off freeway, duh everyone is telling me I need new tires but not once have I felt they where not solid in rain or otherwise.
They have 3/32 now wearing pretty even. This car drives fantastic with these tires I would not get anything else on the car they drive so nice I could only be disappointed. I just think the unique siping that they claim stays solid as tires wear is true and U can drive em to 2/32 thats where they get the mileage ratings but lets see how they are in 6 weeks in the snow.
I would trust tire Rack reviews.
This Camry is like our LS 238k miles uses drips no fluids oil, solid at 120 mph quiet I just run it it never stops gets 30 mpg all day long. Spread mileage out on my LS with now 190k miles things clean paid 1400 bucks added sway bar links and alignment its perfect Toyota did it again.
by the report it would seem tires really lose performance as they wear. The premiers for whatever reason appear to lose "less" if that report is accurate. It wouldn't seem that there is enough data for it to be statistically valid (this is the CR way).
I just looked at my wife's Premiers, rotated religiously, and at 28k (if they have 32k left, it just defies what we have learned over the course of our lives and who knows maybe they miraculously stop wearing at the same rate, and reach 60k), they appear to be nearly down to the wear indicators. Again, they started at 8.5/32, so it would seem that Michelin is shorting us off by 2.5/32. What I really think is they want to get closer to the warranty, i.e., we don't want plenty of tire left at 60k, we would rather it be shot at 50k. To get a customer to pay a pro-rata is great for sales?
t ire rack wear ratings all over the board overall rated middle of road on wear though
UTQG are not comparable across brands. These are self reported numbers and intended for comparison across the same brand. So one cannot say 640 AA A Michelin, is the same as 640 AA A, Kumho.
Your tires look worn, there's no meat in excess of those wear indicators (no real substantial meat) but hard to truly tell. Any other tire, at say 28k, are still beefy, meaning you can't get a finger in the tread. Premiers look shot.
Yur the forth Johnhav to say they are shot, I would prolly agree on any other tire especially. We got 2 1/2 inches over night drove to work hardly spun the tires even pushed em and hardly slipped. Soon but not ready for dump yet, lol. Sorry yurs wore so fast.
I have a feeling they are "OK" looking like that, just not what we're used to. We started off at 8.5/32, by old standards, ripped off lol by 2.5/32. My conspiracy theory is Michelin wants it to be done at 60k, not still good and you drive 87k. I drove 87k on Goodyear RS-A's from the factory. they were terrible when new, terrible throughout their life, but no wear indicators at all even at 87k, just dry rot haha
Again you can't really eyeball the PSI of a tire, maybe you can no longer linearly measure, starting from 11/32, down to 2/32, to know how much you have left...with a Premier
10-03-18, 09:51 PM
AAA Worn Wet Traction report P7+ vs Premier AS
