2013 Avalon vs 2005 LS 430 vs 2010 LS 460 AWD
11-12-18, 12:13 PM
#1
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2013 Avalon vs 2005 LS 430 vs 2010 LS 460 AWD
I know there have been comparisons between these cars. I have spent the last week reading about the 2013+ Avalon and the differences between the 3rd gen and 4th gen LS. But I honestly can not make up my mind! I know some will give me crap and say every person is different and driving the cars will help me chose. That's the thing. I have test drove the Avalon, and I'm test driving the 4th gen LS 460 tonight. I haven't had the opportunity to test drive the 3rd gen LS 430 though. I like each car for different reasons and don't know which one to pick!!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
Little background. I owned a 2004 GS300 and loved the way it drove. Then bought a 2006 GS350 AWD and didn't like it at all. So I bought a 2008 Lexus ISF. I love most everything about the ISF except for the gas mileage (average 19 and I drive mostly highway) and the rough ride. My wife and I are having our second child and I'm not wanting to fit two carseats in the back of the F.
I originally looked at a 2013 Toyota Camry SE to get the best MPG and good reliability. I was very disappointed. The seat was very small and had less cushion than my ISF. I realized there is no reason to get the sporty Camry when a Camry will never be sporty coming from the beast V8 ISF. So I started looking for a Camry XLE but couldn't find one that was in my price range.
So then I started looking at the 2013+ Toyota Avalon. I test drove my first one today and was impressed. It was no Lexus, but it did average 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it takes regular gas which will save money over the premium that I have used over the last 5 years on my Lexus's. It didn't have the smooth steering that my Lexus has, but it was comfortable and somewhat quiet. Much better than the Camry SE.
Then I realized I could buy a LS 430 for less than a 2013-2016 Avalon. So I did all my research on the LS 430 and it seems that other than the timing belt and water pump, they can go 500,000 miles easy. Then I started looking at the LS460 because I like the look better and the interior looks better to me. But then I read how the 460 has more electrical parts and computers which is understandable for a newer car. But those items are less reliable than the older 430. The air shocks really scare me. I read that the 2007-2009 LS 460 had some issues, so I"m looking for 2010+.
So here I am. I have no idea which one I want. I like the MPG and cheaper maintenance of the Avalon. But I've driven Lexus for the past 5 years and have been spoiled. Not sure if I want to go back to a Toyota. I love the idea that the LS 430 is more reliable than the LS 460. But they are older and tend to have more miles on them which will probably have routine maintenance more often with little things here and there going out. I love the idea of a newer looking interior and exterior of the LS 460 but am scared to death that the air suspension will go out and I'll be looking at a $4,000 bill. I'm used to paying extra for my ISF, but I've never had to put that kind of money into it. The thought of being in an LS and riding down the highway in a quiet cabin and not jolting myself over imperfections in the road really makes me want an LS. The MPG and potential high maintenance is what is scaring me to think about the Avalon though. Keep in mind, I know the LS will have a premium cost to services, just as my ISF did over the IS350. But with a second child on the way, I'm not wanting to drop more than $3,000 for regular maintenance.
I want to know what you all think. If you have owned the newer Avalon and gone to the LS or vice versa, tell me about your thoughts and opinions. I know everyone will have different ideas but I'm open to all of them. Tell me what you hate about each car, and love. I appreciate the help guys!
Last edited by leisinjp; 11-12-18 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Typo
11-12-18, 12:56 PM
#2
I owned a 430, bought a 2010 460L, then went back to the 430. It is a better luxury car. Most Lexus techs will tell you that too. I now have that LS430 and another LS430 with only 22k miles on it in the garage to drive when the current car is done. My 460L stayed in the shop. Tons of issues.
As for the Avalon, it's really not in the same class as the other 2 cars. They are nice, but just a step down from the others. No way I would buy one over a used 430. I'd find a low mileage (<80k) 05 or 06 430 and enjoy. Just me sure the timing belt has been done.
As for the Avalon, it's really not in the same class as the other 2 cars. They are nice, but just a step down from the others. No way I would buy one over a used 430. I'd find a low mileage (<80k) 05 or 06 430 and enjoy. Just me sure the timing belt has been done.
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11-12-18, 01:05 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
I owned a 430, bought a 2010 460L, then went back to the 430. It is a better luxury car. Most Lexus techs will tell you that too. I now have that LS430 and another LS430 with only 22k miles on it in the garage to drive when the current car is done. My 460L stayed in the shop. Tons of issues.
As for the Avalon, it's really not in the same class as the other 2 cars. They are nice, but just a step down from the others. No way I would buy one over a used 430. I'd find a low mileage (<80k) 05 or 06 430 and enjoy. Just me sure the timing belt has been done.
As for the Avalon, it's really not in the same class as the other 2 cars. They are nice, but just a step down from the others. No way I would buy one over a used 430. I'd find a low mileage (<80k) 05 or 06 430 and enjoy. Just me sure the timing belt has been done.
I appreciate the input Bob.
What issues did you have with your LS 460? The LS 430's that I'm looking at all have over 130,000 miles on them. Would you still consider one with those miles over a lower mileage LS 460?
I understand the Avalon is in a different category, but coming from an ISF. All of them are quieter, smoother, and more comfortable.
11-12-18, 01:06 PM
#4
Instructor
Problem is that finding a good LS430 is getting harder and harder to find. Is the 2013+ LS460 out of your price range?
As you mentioned, it's really going to come down to your personal preference. I do love the ride and spacious interior of my LS430 though. My plan is to go to a 2013+ LS460 in another year or two when they drop into the lower $20s price range but I'm also very leary to give up my LS430. I've seen several posts where some people say the LS460 is better than the LS430 and vice versa. Again, that probably comes down to which one you get an your own personal preference.
I'm not big on the Avalon but there is a newer one here at my work that is silver with some aftermarket wheels and honestly I would probably drive that car with no problems.
As you mentioned, it's really going to come down to your personal preference. I do love the ride and spacious interior of my LS430 though. My plan is to go to a 2013+ LS460 in another year or two when they drop into the lower $20s price range but I'm also very leary to give up my LS430. I've seen several posts where some people say the LS460 is better than the LS430 and vice versa. Again, that probably comes down to which one you get an your own personal preference.
I'm not big on the Avalon but there is a newer one here at my work that is silver with some aftermarket wheels and honestly I would probably drive that car with no problems.
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11-12-18, 01:10 PM
#5
Instructor
I appreciate the input Bob.
What issues did you have with your LS 460? The LS 430's that I'm looking at all have over 130,000 miles on them. Would you still consider one with those miles over a lower mileage LS 460?
I understand the Avalon is in a different category, but coming from an ISF. All of them are quieter, smoother, and more comfortable.
What issues did you have with your LS 460? The LS 430's that I'm looking at all have over 130,000 miles on them. Would you still consider one with those miles over a lower mileage LS 460?
I understand the Avalon is in a different category, but coming from an ISF. All of them are quieter, smoother, and more comfortable.
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leisinjp (11-12-18)
11-12-18, 01:52 PM
#6
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Problem is that finding a good LS430 is getting harder and harder to find. Is the 2013+ LS460 out of your price range?
As you mentioned, it's really going to come down to your personal preference. I do love the ride and spacious interior of my LS430 though. My plan is to go to a 2013+ LS460 in another year or two when they drop into the lower $20s price range but I'm also very leary to give up my LS430. I've seen several posts where some people say the LS460 is better than the LS430 and vice versa. Again, that probably comes down to which one you get an your own personal preference.
I'm not big on the Avalon but there is a newer one here at my work that is silver with some aftermarket wheels and honestly I would probably drive that car with no problems.
As you mentioned, it's really going to come down to your personal preference. I do love the ride and spacious interior of my LS430 though. My plan is to go to a 2013+ LS460 in another year or two when they drop into the lower $20s price range but I'm also very leary to give up my LS430. I've seen several posts where some people say the LS460 is better than the LS430 and vice versa. Again, that probably comes down to which one you get an your own personal preference.
I'm not big on the Avalon but there is a newer one here at my work that is silver with some aftermarket wheels and honestly I would probably drive that car with no problems.
I have seen a couple 2013+ LS460's with anywhere from 80k to 120k miles around $24k. I paid $24k for my ISF. But with our second kid on the way I'm not wanting to spend that much again. The LS 430's and LS 460's I'm looking at are all below $13k.
I think the 2019 Avalon looks amazing. But it is well out of my price range. If I could find a solid LS 430 right now I would probably jump on it. The LS 460 that I'm looking at scares me because it has the air suspension. The owner has replaced the front two shocks but I plan to hold on to the car long enough that they will need to be replaced again. My plan right now is to find a solid LS or Avalon, drive it for 5 years, then buy a 2013+ LS 460 that has been taken care of.
11-12-18, 04:40 PM
#7
I have never owned an Avalon nor the LS460, so this is probably biased.
With that being said, no car in my dealer's entire lot gets as much attention as my bone stock LS430. Techs love it, service writers love it, EVERYONE who knows Lexus knows that the 430 was probably the best car Lexus ever made, and that's saying something. To give you an idea, the first time I brought my 430 to my local dealer the master tech came out and personally sought me out, gave me his cell phone number, and told me to text him or call him with any issues or questions I have about it. I've only ever brought it there three times now, and the car has its own 'dedicated' service writer and tech! And all the employees know me immediately when I walk in as the kid with the 430 (I just turned 24). As someone who nerds out and is genuinely interested in the engineering behind the automobile, the 430 is truly a masterpiece. It's simple enough where you can work on most things with basic hand tools, but still, to this day, is the absolute quietest and smoothest car I have ever been in.
Bottom line -- never will you be disappointed in buying a well sorted 430, that I can tell you. Perhaps the 460 does drive even smoother and quieter, and perhaps the Avalon has more gizmos and gadgets. But there will probably never be an automobile made and engineered quite like the LS430.
With that being said, no car in my dealer's entire lot gets as much attention as my bone stock LS430. Techs love it, service writers love it, EVERYONE who knows Lexus knows that the 430 was probably the best car Lexus ever made, and that's saying something. To give you an idea, the first time I brought my 430 to my local dealer the master tech came out and personally sought me out, gave me his cell phone number, and told me to text him or call him with any issues or questions I have about it. I've only ever brought it there three times now, and the car has its own 'dedicated' service writer and tech! And all the employees know me immediately when I walk in as the kid with the 430 (I just turned 24). As someone who nerds out and is genuinely interested in the engineering behind the automobile, the 430 is truly a masterpiece. It's simple enough where you can work on most things with basic hand tools, but still, to this day, is the absolute quietest and smoothest car I have ever been in.
Bottom line -- never will you be disappointed in buying a well sorted 430, that I can tell you. Perhaps the 460 does drive even smoother and quieter, and perhaps the Avalon has more gizmos and gadgets. But there will probably never be an automobile made and engineered quite like the LS430.
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11-12-18, 04:58 PM
#8
I had a similar experience when I first took my 22k mile 430 in to get the timing belt changed. Every service adviser in the shop came over and gawked at it. Other customers looked confused as to what was going on. You would I thought I had driven a Ferrari into the service bay.
11-12-18, 05:06 PM
#9
I appreciate the input Bob.
What issues did you have with your LS 460? The LS 430's that I'm looking at all have over 130,000 miles on them. Would you still consider one with those miles over a lower mileage LS 460?
I understand the Avalon is in a different category, but coming from an ISF. All of them are quieter, smoother, and more comfortable.
What issues did you have with your LS 460? The LS 430's that I'm looking at all have over 130,000 miles on them. Would you still consider one with those miles over a lower mileage LS 460?
I understand the Avalon is in a different category, but coming from an ISF. All of them are quieter, smoother, and more comfortable.
I do remember that it was in the shop almost a month with the entire engine removed. They flew someone in to do that. Thankfully it was a CPO. I can't imagine what that would cost out of warranty. I'd never own a 460 out of warranty. I also remember the highly annoying direct injection ticking. Drove me crazy.
But yes, I would definitely have a 130k mile 430 over a lower mileage 460. But you should be able to get a lower mileage 430 easily for cheaper than almost any 460. The 430 I bought to replace the 460L now has almost 150k miles on it, and it drives fantastic.
11-12-18, 05:22 PM
#10
Here's my back to the 430 thread. I didn't give a lot of detail, but there many issues. Peeling trim. Some type of brake actuator issue. Obnoxious engine ticking. Premature leather wear. A driveline shake between 35 and 40 mph. Wind noise. Damn thing was more trouble than my wife. 
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...the-430-a.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...the-430-a.html
11-12-18, 05:29 PM
#11
Moderator
All three cars would be good choices but it really comes down to what you want to spend and what kind of car you want. I would personally stay away from airbag suspension cars like some of the LS460s (I don't think all models and option levels are airbag suspension) because of the potential high dollar repairs. Anecdotally my service advisor told me that LS460s are subject to some very expensive ($5K) front end repairs (around 80-100k miles) because of a complex multi-link front end suspension as they age.
I love my 2006 LS430 with 112k miles, but would also very likely be happy with a 2013+ Avalon or the 2010+ LS460. I do agree that the LS430 is likely the best Lexus sedan ever made. I have driven mine 100k miles and still enjoy every ride in it. It has cost me very little in repairs (front struts and LCAs is sum total) over 10+ years of ownership. Other than that its been diy oil/filters/brake pads/tires/spark plugs/and one Lexus performed TB/WP service. Car runs and operates like it is brand new.
I love my 2006 LS430 with 112k miles, but would also very likely be happy with a 2013+ Avalon or the 2010+ LS460. I do agree that the LS430 is likely the best Lexus sedan ever made. I have driven mine 100k miles and still enjoy every ride in it. It has cost me very little in repairs (front struts and LCAs is sum total) over 10+ years of ownership. Other than that its been diy oil/filters/brake pads/tires/spark plugs/and one Lexus performed TB/WP service. Car runs and operates like it is brand new.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 11-12-18 at 05:34 PM.
11-12-18, 07:23 PM
#12
I think if you looking at the those 3 cars, for approximately the same condition and miles, the LS430 will be cheaper. So now it is a matter of personal preference and budget. Avalon is most likely going to have cheaper operating cost ($/miles) because better gas mileage and probably cheaper parts too. I did not even test drive an Avalon when shopping a few months ago. I think Lexus built and quality is better (especially the one built in Japan), even against the newer car. I also want a rear wheel drive so that narrow it down to a few cars. I also prefer the look of LS430 vs 460, but that is personal preference.
We drive ~12K/year on average. For us, the operating cost difference is negligible between having a v8 (LS430) vs v6 (Avalon/Camry/Accord). The cost difference is worth it for better/relaxed ride, more peace and quiet, etc etc.
We drive ~12K/year on average. For us, the operating cost difference is negligible between having a v8 (LS430) vs v6 (Avalon/Camry/Accord). The cost difference is worth it for better/relaxed ride, more peace and quiet, etc etc.
11-13-18, 06:42 AM
#13
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Thread Starter
Here's my back to the 430 thread. I didn't give a lot of detail, but there many issues. Peeling trim. Some type of brake actuator issue. Obnoxious engine ticking. Premature leather wear. A driveline shake between 35 and 40 mph. Wind noise. Damn thing was more trouble than my wife.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...the-430-a.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...the-430-a.html
11-13-18, 06:43 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
All three cars would be good choices but it really comes down to what you want to spend and what kind of car you want. I would personally stay away from airbag suspension cars like some of the LS460s (I don't think all models and option levels are airbag suspension) because of the potential high dollar repairs. Anecdotally my service advisor told me that LS460s are subject to some very expensive ($5K) front end repairs (around 80-100k miles) because of a complex multi-link front end suspension as they age.
I love my 2006 LS430 with 112k miles, but would also very likely be happy with a 2013+ Avalon or the 2010+ LS460. I do agree that the LS430 is likely the best Lexus sedan ever made. I have driven mine 100k miles and still enjoy every ride in it. It has cost me very little in repairs (front struts and LCAs is sum total) over 10+ years of ownership. Other than that its been diy oil/filters/brake pads/tires/spark plugs/and one Lexus performed TB/WP service. Car runs and operates like it is brand new.
I love my 2006 LS430 with 112k miles, but would also very likely be happy with a 2013+ Avalon or the 2010+ LS460. I do agree that the LS430 is likely the best Lexus sedan ever made. I have driven mine 100k miles and still enjoy every ride in it. It has cost me very little in repairs (front struts and LCAs is sum total) over 10+ years of ownership. Other than that its been diy oil/filters/brake pads/tires/spark plugs/and one Lexus performed TB/WP service. Car runs and operates like it is brand new.
What did the front struts and LCSs cost to replace? And at what mileage?
11-13-18, 06:45 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
I think if you looking at the those 3 cars, for approximately the same condition and miles, the LS430 will be cheaper. So now it is a matter of personal preference and budget. Avalon is most likely going to have cheaper operating cost ($/miles) because better gas mileage and probably cheaper parts too. I did not even test drive an Avalon when shopping a few months ago. I think Lexus built and quality is better (especially the one built in Japan), even against the newer car. I also want a rear wheel drive so that narrow it down to a few cars. I also prefer the look of LS430 vs 460, but that is personal preference.
We drive ~12K/year on average. For us, the operating cost difference is negligible between having a v8 (LS430) vs v6 (Avalon/Camry/Accord). The cost difference is worth it for better/relaxed ride, more peace and quiet, etc etc.
We drive ~12K/year on average. For us, the operating cost difference is negligible between having a v8 (LS430) vs v6 (Avalon/Camry/Accord). The cost difference is worth it for better/relaxed ride, more peace and quiet, etc etc.
Very good point. I definetly want the more quiet and smoother ride. Right now I'm able to find LS 430's for under $8,000. Where as the cheapest 2013+ Avalon is $10,500 but it has 150,000 miles on it. I trust the LS 430 to go 300k because I've seen you guys do it. I'm sure the Avalon is easily a 200k-250k car, but I would trust the history behind the LS.
The only thing keeping my mind on an Avalon is the MPG. And kind of the potential services being cheaper, but coming from an ISF, I'm used to the premium prices on everything. But I would save money up front buy purchasing a 04-06 LS 430.