TriC

Agreed, but with one caveat. My car came from Wilmington, Delaware, and it was, like some LS 430s, the owner's "baby" and was not used as a daily driver. Although I did not know it at the time of purchase, it gives every appearance of never having been exposed to salt. The undercarriage, suspension components, and even the inside of the original wheels show no corrosion. So there are some northern cars out there that have been treated well!

Trilkb

The 04 to 06 look way to good to consider a 01 to 03. Plus the benefits are great. But I'm sure people disagree.

Side note, there's a clean 2004 s500 for sale here with only 98k miles for $4700 (at a dealer) a similar ls430 would run almost double. But the mb will be costly.

Bocatrip

Of course being well treated is helpful.....however salt is salt and it can over time (even though no rust is evident) play havoc on the other systems of the car including the wiring/electrical. Corrosion takes time to form and there is no absolute way of removing all the corrosive elements with certainty. That being said, it's always a best idea to avoid a car that have been driven in the snow regardless of how many times. Once again, if it can't be avoided, the overall condition can determine the value....and of course we are not talking about big dollars here for our older cars at this point anyway.

AJT123

Lol, and that S500 was probably at least $25,000 more than a similar LS430 of the same year when new. That's Lexus resale value for ya.

BCT

And do not forget that moving forward the maintenance cost of that S500 is going to be higher than LS430.

AJT123

Lol well duh, if you can even get it to start and idle smoothly. Not so much maintenance, repairs. Also let's not forget how much more in repair and maint cost the Merc had over the LS up until now.

Still though, a well kept up and running S500 is a sweet ride. I just would never buy one.

Pad01

Many thanks to all of you again for all of your input - very helpful!

I must say that I do find it interesting to still see how popular Beemer's, Merc's and Audi's still are, yet every mechanic I've spoken to (I've asked at least a dozen mechanics this type of question) all say that these cars are overrated money pits. Strange how they still sell well and I do wonder why not more LS's have been sold. Lexus should be the prime brand for the luxury car market yet it seems as if the European brands still dominate. I do find this odd.

Speaking of which, @BCT and @AJT123 how do LS430 cars generally compare in terms of maintenance and repair costs VS Beemer's, Merc's and Audi's from your knowledge and experience? Anyone else is more than welcome to jump in with their thoughts.

Thanks.

BCT

I never own an MB, BMW, Audi but I have friends and family plus close neighbors who own them. The complaining that I have heard (this broke, that broke, how expensive to fix it) are enough to scare me away. Yes you hear "my 10 yr old BMW is the most dependable car" story, but that is not usual case. I believe Lexus is still the top manufacture on reliability.

Excluding things that get used and worn out (tires, brake pads, oil, fluids, shocks, bushings, etc) and the big maintenance ticket (timing belt and water pumps), I do expect other parts will need to be replaced on my LS (04 128K), but the average cost per year is not going to be as expensive as those comparable European cars (newer or same age/miles). LS is built like a tank, but she is getting old and things will need to be replaced due to age and/or miles.

Johnhav430

That's why if a person can DIY to the level that some can here, on a German car, it's incredible bang for buck. Look at the guy on legit street cars, he makes it look so easy, he rebuilt the tranny on a C320 and I think he's got 2 of them. My uncle was like that with the Audi A6, he had 2 cuz he could fix anything and everything and had access to a lift. Parts are so readily available and often cheaper for German cars.

When I was looking at LS430s, 2006's were going for $13 to $19k. There were Audi A8's all day long with much less mileage, in the 60's, costing $12k. And the car was easily minimum $13k more when new. Which car would a person rather drive if they could fix everything themselves? Not the one made in Japan lol I get it, it's a huge if. Also, even my uncle, he couldn't afford downtime and also has a RAV4.

kos

iTrader: (1)

Big fan of my Kouki (04-06). the 01-03 look nice, and some of the interior colors are better, but I love my 2004.

StanVanDam

Here are the differences between 01-03 and 04-06 models that I find noteworthy:

04-06 has unrepairable LED taillamps, new assembly is ~$200-300. 01-03 taillamp bulbs cost $3 CAD, from the dealer! Practically pennies each in USD.

01-02 can disable VSC and TRAC, if you like having fun and getting the car sideways in the winter. 03-06 can only disable TRAC, VSC always stays on.

01-03 has the dark grey bird's eye maple interior trim. I couldn't find any 04-06 with this when I was looking to buy, 10 years ago.

01-03 has laser cruise control, 04-06 has milliwave radar (optional). Laser doesn't work in the rain and doesn't work if there is grime on the sensor unit (mounted in lower right hand bumper). Milliwave is mounted behind the L in the grille, and works much better than laser, and also enables pre-collision safety features (I think it tightens the seatbelts, tilts your headrests, and pre-loads the brakes when it senses that a collision is unavoidable).

04-06 has swivelling headlights, 01-03 doesn't. However, the associated sensor may rust out and cause an AFS sensor error. Probably $200-300 for a new one.

Here are some other brand problems, although no vehicles in the same class as the LS, as experienced by people I know:
VW: timing belt broke for no reason, causing internal engine damage and requiring a tow out of a work parking garage
2007 BMW 3-series with turbo: high pressure fuel pump problems requiring a tow, coolant impeller failure causing no coolant flow and engine overheating, requiring a tow, turbo exhaust rattling problems, halo headlamp failure and difficulty sourcing the parts. I've been on road trips in 2 different 3-series, back seat is the worst of all cars I've ever been in.
2012 Acura TL: alternator failure out of nowhere, leaving the car dead in a main street, requiring a tow
2012 Acura TL AWD (another friend's): oil level sensor either incorrectly reading low, or severe oil burning, and I feel like it has needed a tow before for something

In owning my 2002 LS430 UL for 10 years, it has never left me stranded, never needed a tow, and I have never had or even considered a CAA membership. My annual maintenance costs are dirt cheap, and I got the car for a steal of a price to begin with back in 2009. In 2002, my car cost $100K CAD, when houses cost $200K CAD. Still drives like a $100K car.

The most expensive repair I had was repairing the high pressure AC line going to the rear evaporator unit (Ultra Luxury package has a dual AC system), it was about $1000 CAD parts and labor from the dealer. Someone on these forums did this repair DIY, which is very commendable.

Second most expensive repair was Y-pipe replacement due to corrosion caused salt accumulation between the heat shields and the pipe, which could have been prevented by removing the heat shields as soon as I bought the car. This was ~$600 CAD, could have been much cheaper if I had time to buy the pipe myself, labor was cheap but the shop marked up the aftermarket pipe big-time.

Zero problems with my air suspension, 17 years and 164,000km now. I utilize the HEIGHT->HIGH function often enough to raise the car for washing, parking in snowy places, oil changes, offroading, etc.

Other that that, everything else on the LS430 is minor wear and tear and easy to DIY. Parts are cheap from Amayama, PartSouq, Parts.com, and even several US-based Lexus dealers' online stores. You definitely want an LS430 if you can fix everything yourself. At least 2 people posted DIY timing belt replacement videos on YouTube for the LS430, which is generally considered to be one of the most difficult things to do on this car. Seems easy enough if you take your time and have a high attention to detail. The LS430 has been around for over 18 years now, anything that requires repair, someone on these forums has posted instructions on how to DIY fix it.

I read stories (several years ago) of S-classes, 7-series, and Model S's leaving people stranded. I don't recall anything about the A8 aside from expensive maintenance. Acura RL is FWD. No thanks to all of that, I'll stick to the Lexus/Toyota family, with the LS430 being top choice.

AJT123

Right, but 99.5% of people aren't DIYers and/or don't want their cars in the shop all the time. It's ludicrous to me how junky German cars get after some mileage and age. We pulled up to probably 2 year old Q5 last night and I made sure to show my spouse (who doesn't really care about cars) "just look at all those lights on the dash". What I saw was CEL, Oil light, and one other. On a still basically new vehicle.

AJT123

Expect to spend what you would on a decent Toyota in maintenance. They're old now, no reason on earth to take to dealer other than for major engine or transmission work (which these cars never need); just find a good independent mechanic. Most cities have a Toyota/Lexus indy shop and the one I use is excellent. These cars really don't break. Just change oil, timing belt, water pump, fluids, and fill it with gas and enjoy the next 300,000 miles. You might have a door lock go out or the power wheel may squeak (pull fuse to turn off) but these are silly, minor issues. The hardware of the 430 is Toyota's absolute finest. It's stupid how reliable these cars are. A well cared for one with service history, you can not go wrong. I literally anticipate to drive my LS430 for at least another 10 years.

BCT

I consider myself pretty good at fixing things, and while I do enjoy working in my garage (It is kinda fun and change of pace from sitting in front of computer all day) I prefer to drive my cars, not fixing them. Maybe German car parts are cheaper, but my time is certainly not cheap. Even if parts are free for German cars, I still rather spend time driving a Lexus vs fixing German cars. The ultimate driving experience does not mean anything if the car need to be fixed all the time. It should be called the ultimate fixing experience lol

I think the bang for the buck is when you can find a car that is reliable, has good riding/driving experience (very subjective), and with decent/cheap cost of ownership.

As a guy who fix his own car, this forum do influence my decision. It is a big deal to be able to look here for pretty much any problem plus getting some friendly advice.

iriz

Not entirely correct. According to Lexus pricelist the 2001 CL had air suspension as an option.

In many European countries the lowest spec version corresponds approximately to a US base car, however, WITH air suspension AND the larger 17/18 inch wheels, the latter being an option even on the UL in the US.

Strange.