Difference between LS430 01-03 and 04+ models
02-27-19, 01:55 PM
#31
Right, but 99.5% of people aren't DIYers and/or don't want their cars in the shop all the time. It's ludicrous to me how junky German cars get after some mileage and age. We pulled up to probably 2 year old Q5 last night and I made sure to show my spouse (who doesn't really care about cars) "just look at all those lights on the dash". What I saw was CEL, Oil light, and one other. On a still basically new vehicle.
02-27-19, 02:06 PM
#32
Here are the differences between 01-03 and 04-06 models that I find noteworthy:
04-06 has unrepairable LED taillamps, new assembly is ~$200-300. 01-03 taillamp bulbs cost $3 CAD, from the dealer! Practically pennies each in USD.
01-02 can disable VSC and TRAC, if you like having fun and getting the car sideways in the winter. 03-06 can only disable TRAC, VSC always stays on.
01-03 has the dark grey bird's eye maple interior trim. I couldn't find any 04-06 with this when I was looking to buy, 10 years ago.
01-03 has laser cruise control, 04-06 has milliwave radar (optional). Laser doesn't work in the rain and doesn't work if there is grime on the sensor unit (mounted in lower right hand bumper). Milliwave is mounted behind the L in the grille, and works much better than laser, and also enables pre-collision safety features (I think it tightens the seatbelts, tilts your headrests, and pre-loads the brakes when it senses that a collision is unavoidable).
04-06 has swivelling headlights, 01-03 doesn't. However, the associated sensor may rust out and cause an AFS sensor error. Probably $200-300 for a new one.
In owning my 2002 LS430 UL for 10 years, it has never left me stranded, never needed a tow, and I have never had or even considered a CAA membership. My annual maintenance costs are dirt cheap, and I got the car for a steal of a price to begin with back in 2009. In 2002, my car cost $100K CAD, when houses cost $200K CAD. Still drives like a $100K car.
The most expensive repair I had was repairing the high pressure AC line going to the rear evaporator unit (Ultra Luxury package has a dual AC system), it was about $1000 CAD parts and labor from the dealer. Someone on these forums did this repair DIY, which is very commendable.
Second most expensive repair was Y-pipe replacement due to corrosion caused salt accumulation between the heat shields and the pipe, which could have been prevented by removing the heat shields as soon as I bought the car. This was ~$600 CAD, could have been much cheaper if I had time to buy the pipe myself, labor was cheap but the shop marked up the aftermarket pipe big-time.
Zero problems with my air suspension, 17 years and 164,000km now. I utilize the HEIGHT->HIGH function often enough to raise the car for washing, parking in snowy places, oil changes, offroading, etc.
Other that that, everything else on the LS430 is minor wear and tear and easy to DIY. Parts are cheap from Amayama, PartSouq, Parts.com, and even several US-based Lexus dealers' online stores. You definitely want an LS430 if you can fix everything yourself. At least 2 people posted DIY timing belt replacement videos on YouTube for the LS430, which is generally considered to be one of the most difficult things to do on this car. Seems easy enough if you take your time and have a high attention to detail. The LS430 has been around for over 18 years now, anything that requires repair, someone on these forums has posted instructions on how to DIY fix it.
I read stories (several years ago) of S-classes, 7-series, and Model S's leaving people stranded. I don't recall anything about the A8 aside from expensive maintenance. Acura RL is FWD. No thanks to all of that, I'll stick to the Lexus/Toyota family, with the LS430 being top choice.
04-06 has unrepairable LED taillamps, new assembly is ~$200-300. 01-03 taillamp bulbs cost $3 CAD, from the dealer! Practically pennies each in USD.
01-02 can disable VSC and TRAC, if you like having fun and getting the car sideways in the winter. 03-06 can only disable TRAC, VSC always stays on.
01-03 has the dark grey bird's eye maple interior trim. I couldn't find any 04-06 with this when I was looking to buy, 10 years ago.
01-03 has laser cruise control, 04-06 has milliwave radar (optional). Laser doesn't work in the rain and doesn't work if there is grime on the sensor unit (mounted in lower right hand bumper). Milliwave is mounted behind the L in the grille, and works much better than laser, and also enables pre-collision safety features (I think it tightens the seatbelts, tilts your headrests, and pre-loads the brakes when it senses that a collision is unavoidable).
04-06 has swivelling headlights, 01-03 doesn't. However, the associated sensor may rust out and cause an AFS sensor error. Probably $200-300 for a new one.
In owning my 2002 LS430 UL for 10 years, it has never left me stranded, never needed a tow, and I have never had or even considered a CAA membership. My annual maintenance costs are dirt cheap, and I got the car for a steal of a price to begin with back in 2009. In 2002, my car cost $100K CAD, when houses cost $200K CAD. Still drives like a $100K car.
The most expensive repair I had was repairing the high pressure AC line going to the rear evaporator unit (Ultra Luxury package has a dual AC system), it was about $1000 CAD parts and labor from the dealer. Someone on these forums did this repair DIY, which is very commendable.
Second most expensive repair was Y-pipe replacement due to corrosion caused salt accumulation between the heat shields and the pipe, which could have been prevented by removing the heat shields as soon as I bought the car. This was ~$600 CAD, could have been much cheaper if I had time to buy the pipe myself, labor was cheap but the shop marked up the aftermarket pipe big-time.
Zero problems with my air suspension, 17 years and 164,000km now. I utilize the HEIGHT->HIGH function often enough to raise the car for washing, parking in snowy places, oil changes, offroading, etc.
Other that that, everything else on the LS430 is minor wear and tear and easy to DIY. Parts are cheap from Amayama, PartSouq, Parts.com, and even several US-based Lexus dealers' online stores. You definitely want an LS430 if you can fix everything yourself. At least 2 people posted DIY timing belt replacement videos on YouTube for the LS430, which is generally considered to be one of the most difficult things to do on this car. Seems easy enough if you take your time and have a high attention to detail. The LS430 has been around for over 18 years now, anything that requires repair, someone on these forums has posted instructions on how to DIY fix it.
I read stories (several years ago) of S-classes, 7-series, and Model S's leaving people stranded. I don't recall anything about the A8 aside from expensive maintenance. Acura RL is FWD. No thanks to all of that, I'll stick to the Lexus/Toyota family, with the LS430 being top choice.
02-27-19, 03:28 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
Not entirely correct. According to Lexus pricelist the 2001 CL had air suspension as an option.
In many European countries the lowest spec version corresponds approximately to a US base car, however, WITH air suspension AND the larger 17/18 inch wheels, the latter being an option even on the UL in the US.
Strange.
In many European countries the lowest spec version corresponds approximately to a US base car, however, WITH air suspension AND the larger 17/18 inch wheels, the latter being an option even on the UL in the US.
Strange.
02-28-19, 08:50 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
junky German cars lol they are built so solidly that 25 yrs later there isn't any rust even in the northeast (yes the powertrain might have problems), or a PDR can be done in areas where they cannot on an Asian car. When I saw that the LS430 had rust issues I was a bit surprised and hope mine doesn't, I feel it had 8 years in FLA so at least not as bad...
02-28-19, 09:31 AM
#37
Intermediate
Last ones
The last of the great M/B's were made in 1989. IMHO that is when M/B changed from a car that was designed to be repaired and driven for decades to a disposable car.
M/B came the the realization that we N. Americans don't keep our cars for more than 3-4 years. N. America being their biggest single market, they changed.
M/B came the the realization that we N. Americans don't keep our cars for more than 3-4 years. N. America being their biggest single market, they changed.
02-28-19, 12:10 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
The last of the great M/B's were made in 1989. IMHO that is when M/B changed from a car that was designed to be repaired and driven for decades to a disposable car.
M/B came the the realization that we N. Americans don't keep our cars for more than 3-4 years. N. America being their biggest single market, they changed.
M/B came the the realization that we N. Americans don't keep our cars for more than 3-4 years. N. America being their biggest single market, they changed.
Agree. But also here came Lexus that knocked them on their a$$, too. Forced them to start building cars to a price.
02-28-19, 12:50 PM
#39
Intermediate
Yes indeed
Am also convinced that is part of.the reason the 430 is so darn Good. The battle with M/B was still.going strong.
Toyota won, and it shows. Not in a good way.
Toyota won, and it shows. Not in a good way.
02-28-19, 04:06 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
Yes, comparing an LS430 to a W220 is a joke. That S-Class was a joke. OTOH, the LS430 I think is the W126 of LSs.
02-28-19, 07:14 PM
#41
Intermediate
Long term thinking
Wasn't the W220 the one where M/B made the inside rear view mirror with power and memory? I think it was. You know the one that is within very easy reach. Heck I remember cars that only the RH mirror had power adjustment.
Am a big fan of Japan, have friends over there, I'll be going over in the spring. Here's the thing. If you and I want to start a business, to borrow money one element being we need to write up a good business plan. Typically here in the USA it will be a ten year plan. In Japan? The business plan will be for 100 years. That's the culture. Long term. The company I work with over there is over 100 years old and privately held.
Very different way of thinking, and we can learn from it.
Am a big fan of Japan, have friends over there, I'll be going over in the spring. Here's the thing. If you and I want to start a business, to borrow money one element being we need to write up a good business plan. Typically here in the USA it will be a ten year plan. In Japan? The business plan will be for 100 years. That's the culture. Long term. The company I work with over there is over 100 years old and privately held.
Very different way of thinking, and we can learn from it.
02-28-19, 07:35 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
Wasn't the W220 the one where M/B made the inside rear view mirror with power and memory? I think it was. You know the one that is within very easy reach. Heck I remember cars that only the RH mirror had power adjustment.
Am a big fan of Japan, have friends over there, I'll be going over in the spring. Here's the thing. If you and I want to start a business, to borrow money one element being we need to write up a good business plan. Typically here in the USA it will be a ten year plan. In Japan? The business plan will be for 100 years. That's the culture. Long term. The company I work with over there is over 100 years old and privately held.
Very different way of thinking, and we can learn from it.
Am a big fan of Japan, have friends over there, I'll be going over in the spring. Here's the thing. If you and I want to start a business, to borrow money one element being we need to write up a good business plan. Typically here in the USA it will be a ten year plan. In Japan? The business plan will be for 100 years. That's the culture. Long term. The company I work with over there is over 100 years old and privately held.
Very different way of thinking, and we can learn from it.
My personal favorite S-Class, for sure. But they're a nightmare to maintain at this age.
02-28-19, 09:50 PM
#43
I've just sold my beautiful restored black W126 560 SEL and you're absolutely right. Fantastic car, and while upkeep was extremely expensive (I am not a DIYer at all), the LS430 really is the W126 of the LS line.
03-01-19, 09:05 AM
#44
Intermediate
Loved the 126
I had a 300 SD for years, I loved that panzerwagen. It saved my sorry ***.
I bought the car and went through it from end to end. Brakes, suspension, loads of rubber bits. I had it ready to go to the paint shop, beautiful car and 30 + MPG. Only downside was planning the merge in to fast moving traffic, it would run 90 all day, but took a while to get there.
I got rear ended by a Ford F150. I was fully stopped, the F150 was around 45 MPH, it folded that 126 up to the rear window. I damaged 2 cars in front of me due to the momentum. I walked away.
I am not getting any younger, I recognize my reflexes are not what they once were. Been driving Prius for the last ten years or so. A couple recent experiences in the Prius prompted it's replacement with the LS i'm driving now.
I have the same confidence in my LS as I had in the 126 to protect me. I am also enjoying the comfort and quiet. Mileage is of less importance, tho Prius is a safe car, we can't fight physics.
I bought the car and went through it from end to end. Brakes, suspension, loads of rubber bits. I had it ready to go to the paint shop, beautiful car and 30 + MPG. Only downside was planning the merge in to fast moving traffic, it would run 90 all day, but took a while to get there.
I got rear ended by a Ford F150. I was fully stopped, the F150 was around 45 MPH, it folded that 126 up to the rear window. I damaged 2 cars in front of me due to the momentum. I walked away.
I am not getting any younger, I recognize my reflexes are not what they once were. Been driving Prius for the last ten years or so. A couple recent experiences in the Prius prompted it's replacement with the LS i'm driving now.
I have the same confidence in my LS as I had in the 126 to protect me. I am also enjoying the comfort and quiet. Mileage is of less importance, tho Prius is a safe car, we can't fight physics.
03-01-19, 02:54 PM
#45
Lexus Champion
And yes, the W126 wasn't cheap either but they were not terribly complex cars (unlike the W140) and were built like tanks.
LS430 doesn't cost much at all to keep running (I have yet to have a repair other than control arm bushings) and it's also a less complex vehicle than the newer ones. Like you, I'm not a DIYer either, at all, but when I saw them change my brake pads I was like "I could easily do that."
I searched out a Premium model without any of the fancy now dated stuff (no nav, etc), so it's just like a big giant Camry (in a good way, reliability wise)...not a whole lot to break.