I have to admit I am leaning towards the mfg position.

As mentioned, not on the LS430 but my wife's SUV, she has Michelin Premiers, which the dealer had recommended replacement almost 2 years ago when about 20k into them (less actually).

Since we were there pulled into Costco and told the guy I'm looking to get these pro-rata as we're in 34k, and the warranty is 60k.

He comes out, then says I'm not even going to measure those. Those have 10-15k left. I think the distance between the wear indicator and the tread is a hair lol

Then he basically recites the Michelin brochure.

Here's where and why I think he's being truthful.

One, he sells and deals with these tires.

Two, he said when the tire is done, you will see that the middle blocks will have no sipes and will be bald.

Three my buddy said he went over 50k and replaced due to the way they looked.

Who the heck knows maybe our "replace it when it looks dangerous" mindset is like saying "you have to keep the tires on the same side so you don't reverse the direction" mentality--i.e. obsolete!

At least I have a leg to stand on if the PA safety inspection says new tires are needed--there are sipes in the tread, they will be absent and bald when at 2/32....

just thought I'd share. We'll know what the real deal is as we continue to wear them out. They look bad. Maybe it really is that they are performing as designed.

 

Do you really want to wait until you are at 2/32nds to replace your tires? What happens if you are in an emergency situation and need to slam on the brakes or in a torrential down pour and can't avoid large pools of water? Regardless of what Michelin says the tires are designed for.....will you feel safe? Personally, the main reason I dismissed the Premier's was because of the 8.5 starting point. I have always replaced my tires before 2/32nds is even close. If the retailer/Costco won't cooperate, I'll buy new tires. Safety comes first for me.....No cutting corners for tires or brakes. But that's OCD me....lol

 

Thought you may also find of interest the below article at site of 65 years in business Les Schwab Tire. (In the article a link at ... the grooves and voids point ... talks about the way to do a penny test

.>(video) (U.S. Department of Transportation recommends that you replace your tires once they’ve worn down to 2⁄32 inches)

What are Directional Tires?

Directional tires have a tread pattern designed to rotate in only one direction. When you look at such tires head on, the lateral voids and channels on the tread all point forward and down. The channels on both sides of the tread will run like two waterfalls joining from opposite sides, like this: ϒ
Directional tires (also called unidirectional) are better for performance cars — and traveling at high speeds — than tires with symmetrical or asymmetrical tread patterns. The tires channel water away efficiently for excellent hydroplaning resistance and deliver sporty performance on dry surfaces.
But directional tires cannot be easily rotated to as many positions on the vehicle. In order to rotate directionals to opposite sides of a vehicle —— not just between front and back on the same side — —the tires have to be dismounted from the wheels and remounted before being installed.
For this reason, most drivers end up just switching directional tires from front to back on the same side when they get a rotation. This means the tires will wear less evenly and more quickly, and that’s why you may get less mileage.

How to Identify Directional Tires

Most directional tires have a solid center rib, which adds rigidity for high-speed stability. Also, the lateral channels on the tread pattern all point down in a V-shape. Such designs are used on summer or winter tires.
Here’s a comparison between directional, symmetrical and asymmetrical treads.



The most common tread pattern for passenger cars is symmetric. The left and right tread blocks mirror each other, and the grooves and voids point in multiple directions. Both summer and winter tires use this type of pattern.
Asymmetric treads combine the above two patterns to offer good grip on dry, wet or snowy roads, making the tread type a better choice for all-season use. The inner side of asymmetric tires often features lateral voids like those found in directionals, while the outer side uses larger tread blocks.

Installing and Rotating

On directional tires, there’s an arrow on the sidewall of the tires — when correctly mounted, the arrow points toward the front of the vehicle. If directional tires get mounted backward, you won’t get the hydroplaning resistance and other performance driving benefits the tread is designed for.



Front and rear tires often wear at different rates. It is recommended to rotate standard tires between front and back and crossways to maximize lifetime mileage.
When you have directional tires, you can only easily swap fronts for rears on the same side of the car. If you want to cross tires to opposite sides, you’ll have to go through the time and expense of having the tires taken off the wheels, flipped, remounted on the wheels and swapped.

Pros and Cons

Directional tires provide superior handling in wet conditions or dry. The V-shaped tread allows water to be pushed outward as the tire rotates, evacuating water better than a symmetric tire.
The tires handle better at high speeds. Most race and sports cars run with directional tires.
Directionals can also provide better fuel efficiency since they have less rolling resistance. (But if you’re a spirited driver, faster accelerations and speeds may offset these gains.)
The main downside is cost. The rubber compounds used in these high-performance tires mean a premium price point compared to standard passenger car tires.
Also, directionals typically have shorter tread life. It’s not because the tread is less durable, but rather it’s because tire rotations involve extra labor and cost. Many drivers opt to swap front and rear tires on the same side to avoid the hassle.

 

What you are asking, is what every Michelin Premier owner is going to have to decide.

These tires started at 8.5/32, so they looked 1/3 worn already based on tread depth. they have a 60k warranty and could look worn at 18k, by "conventional" standards.

Michelin is almost like K&N--claiming that the tire is good new, good worn. Grooves are opening up as it wears, and the tire is made from sunflowers/oil. This could very well be a total snow job, but it's Michelin. Is there a direct relationship between the ability to handle an emergency situation and tread depth? Snow tires are very deep, yet poor in rain. What are the sipes doing, how about the tread design?

Either Michelin is right, or wrong. I am not sure. But I'm leaning towards right.

But you have a point. If you're conservative and like to play it safe and go by what we were taught, you don't want Michelin Premiers. Then again they're working on airless tires, probably that isn't for a conservative person either.

edit I too have always tossed tires early. We can afford it. But should we? You saw I replaced the front brake pads with about 40% left because I had the wheels off. One could never do that if running a business. That would be like throwing away the majority of a fish when serving fillets in a restaurant.

Here's a copy paste. Again I dunno, until I see where the tread wear indicators are showing

 

Interesting you feel that way Boca, seems like most people around here usually suggest OEM since the Lexus engineers supposedly know best so why question them, but seems like you are against the suggestion of Michelin engineers who say the tires are good for 2/32 or whatever.

 

Actually I’m driving on Michelin Primacy MXM4s because of their handling and wet handling characteristics. It works for me and I don’t want to dispute Michelin’s claims for the Premiers especially if forum members are happy with them. My Primacy choice is not even high on the list (on tire rack)for the Grand Touring category, but I feel secure having them on my car. I have always chosen the Michelin brand on all my cars and like them. I just can’t wait for the wear bar to be flush with treads to exchange tires. It’s just my preference. If no other tire is available when replacement time comes around I’ll most likely get the Primacy again if still in production. They are superb in the rain and here in Florida that’s a major concern. Considering the best tire Michelin ever made for our cars is no longer available (Primacy MXV4s) this has been my tire of choice. In general you can’t go wrong with any Michelin.

 

I had Premiers on my 2005 Camry I bought used. I drove em to 2/32 and replaced them. I would buy them again.

 

Looks like Michelin in a backhanded way acknowledges the problem. New Premiers are marked DT, and start at 10/32. hahahahahahahahaha (then again %-wise that wouldn't solve the 2/32 perception v. 60k miles issue because some say spent at 18k)

(if you go to their website it's a one-star rating after another, they ought to have their IT dept accidentally delete them all lol)

If this tire starts at 10/32, seriously, I think its a good tire.

 

Where do you see this news? I am in the market for a set of tires. I may need to make sure I get the new model if I decide on Michelin (been going back and forth between Michelin and Pirelli P7).

 

Apparently, according toTire Rack, not all sizes are at 10/32nds. I'll assume they need to get rid of old stock first before they change the tire depth on all sizes. My size (17s) still show 8.5

 

Had the P7s and put 1,000 miles on them. I returned them because of lack of road feel at highway speeds. . I have the Primacy MXM4s now and they are a world of difference but not for everyone if tire wear is a concern.

 

I find that today there is this perception of extreme caveat emptor, where it's ok to rip people off lol

The Premiers that are 10/32 are "new" and the sidewalls are marked DT. They are a distinct model v. the old ones.

Just like a Continental tire that is OE for an Audi, there is an OE model, and a generic model, at different prices.

Kinda like with laptops, take the Dell 7400. It has no ethernet port, nor does it have a pointing stick, yet it is newer and costs more than a 7490 (these were removed and yes I prefer to be wired when I travel to other offices heck I even lamented the removal of the serial port like I do the clutch in cars). It's sad, but the way it is, we all have to overresearch things these days.

imho for Michelin to add 1.5/32 again it's got to be reputation and warranty combined. Because it's money that they had customers leave on the table (my buddy did not want to do warranty, he said it's the Doug Demuro way--drive an unreliable car and brag you got $18k worth of repairs on a $5k extended warranty--buddy says that shows stupidity).

 

@Bocatrip yes I saw your post about P7 in different thread - thank you. Lack of road feel is definitely a concern, and from reviews P7 is not as good as Michelin in wet condition which we will have plenty here in KY. On the other hand, Pirelli P7 is cheaper, and money is kinda tight right now - we had some unexpected big expenses out of nowhere, then our tire blew out.. sigh...

I am about 60% Michelin 40% Pirelli. Tires are long term investment (I am hoping anything we buy will last ~3 yrs 30K miles), so the price difference is not that much if we think about it that way.

 

I just wish my wife's would wear out this month when Costco is doing the $170 off (so we could pro-rata and probably get 1/3 credit). They won't.