Johnhav430

p.s. what if, the corrosion on the cone surface of the nuts, and the wheel, act as a lubricant? Meaning there is less tension? Again I never gave it this much thought before because after 3X that's the end of it..lol

notroman

iTrader: (1)

Are you saying the seating surface on the rim is not a conical/dish shape to match the conical shape of the nuts? I have not seen an MSW wheel up close. Can you share a picture of the seating surface of the lug nut and the lug nuts you're using?

Johnhav430

I believe the nuts are correct because they came with the rims brand new. And never had this issue before. But when I took them off this AM, I noticed that they were all corroded with a white substance. I am thinking that anything where it is not clean, would change the tension, and I really believe from what I can tell, the nuts are not rotating counter-clockwise, but on the road, the contact has changed.

Let's say if I am used to rechecking 3X, and being done. What if now I have to recheck 6X, due to corrosion? I stopped at 4X and undid and redid.....it would seem not possible to be unable to tighten nuts to the recommended 76 ft. lbs....(seems light but I go by the factory spec. My wife's SUV is 140 ft. lbs. BMW is 87 and Nissan 90)

TominPT

Couple of other thoughts: Are there dissimilar metals between the nuts, the studs and the wheels? That might cause some corrosion > loosening. Aluminum and steel will react in the presence of water, especially salty water.
If I were you I would be sorely tempted to get a new set of nuts for one wheel where you are persistently getting loosening and then see if these new nuts loosen.

notroman

iTrader: (1)

I my factory wheels/lug nuts on the Avalon have plenty of corrosion so do the lug nuts for the snow tires/wheels. There are no loosening issues. It would be neglect on the manufacturer part to design it in such a way that any corrosion would put your life at risk (if your wheel flies off on the highway it can be a big problem). I don't think corrosion is the issue here.

Let's try to attack this one step at a time.

1. Does this wheel/lug nut combination on this car always loosen?
2. Does this same set of wheel/lugs come loose on other cars you own? This question may not be applicable but I thought I'd ask.
3. As far as I know, MSW does not make lug nuts. I understand your wheels came with lug nuts, but that just means the place you bought them from supplied the lug nuts. It's possible that a mistake was made. Are you saying you verified that the seating surface on the lug nuts and wheels matches? Keep in mind lug nuts can be flat, conical, and spherical. Flat is obvious, but conical/spherical can look similar. Let's eliminate that variable. Another thing to consider is thread engagement. Typical rule of thumb is minimal thread engagement of a lug nut should be no less than the diameter of the stud it's going on. OEM Lexus LS430 studs are M12x1.5 so they're about 12mm in diameter. This means the lug nuts you're using should have at least 12mm of threads engaged when you tighten them. If you find that the thickness of the wheel is preventing you from threading your lug nuts on at least 12mm then you might want to look into extended thread (ET) lug nuts.

What you're experiencing right now with the lug nuts loosening is definitely not normal and is dangerous.

Johnhav430

I'm going to stop, half way home today....this would be retighten #2, say it needs to be tightened. I would expect then to reach home, and no more tightening needed. If that doesn't work I'll have to remove all wheels this weekend and check. This is my 4th season on the rims and never happened before....

never giving it any thought, I remember retightening on average 2X when it needs it, or 0X when it doesn't....so expected is the 3rd time it's all tight....

Johnhav430

Problem seems to be solved.

Cliff's notes: loosened 20 lug nuts @ 05:00 EST on 12/11/19. Vehicle on ground. On each wheel, completely removed 2 nuts, to inspect nut, and wheel. Then retorqued all 20 nuts to 76 ft. lbs. Drove 2 miles to gym, still tight. Drove 2 miles home, still tight. Drove 13 miles to work, needed retightening. Checked 3 more times, still tight.

The above end result is what is normal to me, WITHOUT the interval checks (should be 1-2-3 done), that is, to retighten once, check a third time, done, torque wrench out of car. I can only conclude that I somehow improperly mounted the rims, but how? Even a 5 y.o. can do it. The vehicle was on jack stands as I changed the oil, but nothing else different.

Detailed notes: When I say checked 3 more times. Drove from work, 7 miles, hit approx 70 mph on purpose, stopped, still tight. Drove home another ~ 6 miles, still tight, hit about 50 mph. Drove to work 13 miles, hit almost 70 mph (on purpose), in garage this AM, still tight.

Again, in two decades, never gave it this much thought. Normal is mount on car, torque, drive maybe 25 miles incl. highway, check again, tighten, drive another 25 miles, check again, expect to need no tightening. If this is flawed, then the Costcos and tire shops of the world would have to tell you come back 6 times so we can check. They don't, they say come back 1 time.

In all my research, people seem to say tighten by hand in air, lower to ground where tire is kissing, tighten all the way, i.e. they are trying to avoid bearing full weight. That is very difficult to do with a floor jack imho. Oh well the end of a saga.

edit I looked up MSW type 14. These cost me $112 in 10/16. They are like $146 now. Inflation is not good, maybe tariffs.