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I know Ive read a lot on here about people saying the ML system isnt good. I agreed with them for awhile myself but after living with the system and comparing it to other vehicles Ive realized it really is something special. My other 2 cars are a 2000 trans am with an upgraded system using some pretty good brands but stock stereo that has an equalizer, and a 1992 dodge stealth twin turbo that I beleive has upgraded speakers but a very crappy BOSS headunit, its wired for subs but currently none (bought it this way and havent had time yet to mess with it). Both Cars fail to do what the ML system does in term of clearness and all around SQ.
At home Ive gone nuts with sound, currently packing about 33 speakers, 20 of which are dedicated to an acoustic treated home theater. Some brands are considered Hi-fi, borderline audiophile.
Anyways spending time with the ML system in the ls430 has proven to be pretty nice. I had to upgrade the subwoofer to a kicker since factory was blown. I think most peoples problem with this system is high volume/high bass. If you mess with the balance/fade and equalizer and keep things at a relatively low volume (I dont go over 30 when im listening to cd's or streaming with the bt-45 toy) it really is just a phenomenal sound that hes created. You can get lost in the imaging once you dial in the fade balance, it literally seems like the sound is coming from everywhere, like a correct 2.1 setup on a tv, it sounds like you are in the middle of everything with no point source to tell you where any sound is actually coming from.
Ive been the kind of guy who has liked his bass, I currently have 8 12's in my home theater that can dig to 10hz, at 15hz they are still +/- 2 or 3db thanks to DSP trickery, but of course I run them hot. Ive had numerous sub setups in vehilces as well that were setup to bump. The LS430 ML system wasnt designed for that, It was designed to be audiophile. Audiophile is smooth flat response and it does this VERY well. You can tweak it to your likings but it does very well. The main term that comes to mind is reference level, This is where the ML system isnt meant to be in my mind.Think about Studio Monitors, they are designed to be FLAT, the flatter the better, Perfection would be +/- 0db from say 20hz to 20khz. However this is not what sound signature most people like. Once you hear it and can appreciate that you are hearing everything as its meant to be (how the mixer meant it to be) you can appreciate the ML system a lot more. Basically it was designed to be a studio monitor on wheels lol, and it does damn good.
Great post Trilkb. I'm an audiophile like you, running the Mark Levinson package in my LS430 and running a 2.1 Lipinski Signature system with Class D monoblock amps in my recording studio. The studio monitors are worth over 10x what I paid for the Lexus
I agree that the ML system in the LS430 is superb. I find the imaging to be unbelievable! Especially noticeable when you move your head left to right in the driver's seat.
What EQ settings did you end up with on your factory NAV unit? Everything flat? Or something else?
The ML speakers are cheap junk the cones are paper, the surrounds are foam, and the magnets are tiny, or at least that's what I hear all the time and I can't convince them otherwise. I'm glad to hear some positive reviews of the ML system, after I refoamed every door speaker and subwoofer I thoroughly enjoy it.
Great post Trilkb. I'm an audiophile like you, running the Mark Levinson package in my LS430 and running a 2.1 Lipinski Signature system with Class D monoblock amps in my recording studio. The studio monitors are worth over 10x what I paid for the Lexus
I agree that the ML system in the LS430 is superb. I find the imaging to be unbelievable! Especially noticeable when you move your head left to right in the driver's seat.
What EQ settings did you end up with on your factory NAV unit? Everything flat? Or something else?
Holy ****, those are beautiful if they are the L707A's, I'd love to build some, cant afford them for sure! Ill have to check what my settings are, the kicker sub changed things a bit
The ML speakers are cheap junk the cones are paper, the surrounds are foam, and the magnets are tiny, or at least that's what I hear all the time and I can't convince them otherwise. I'm glad to hear some positive reviews of the ML system, after I refoamed every door speaker and subwoofer I thoroughly enjoy it.
Paper cones and foam surrounds and tiny magnets do not designate cheap junk, but many people think they do! However paper cones and foam surrounds do not do well in high moisture non climate controlled environments lol. Paper cones and foam surrounds are light weight and move easily, meaning the speaker doesn't need a massive magnet.
I think a lot of people who dislike the system have a different need than what it was designed to do! Thats completely fine, and yes if you like high SPL and deep bass, it cant reliably give you that.
I am a classical music fan mostly. I have had NAD receivers, Thorens turntable, Polk Monitor 10B's as a teenager years ago, although today I am not so much the home audiophile, more casual. I am constantly blown away by how good my LS430 ML sounds... I have had other cars that stink, including my Cadillac XTS where the satellite radio (ugh) sounds like a mono transistor radio on upper strings. I KNOW XM radio had limited bandwidth etc. but still...
I can't directly compare to a home system since I don't have separate subwoofer at home, more a true 2-speaker setup. My current TV 5+1 setup it not high end, just casual.
My LS430 came with satellite radio that was much better than the XTS (although still limited). It no longer works (antennas have a tendency to break, and just not my priority to repair it with the odd two-in-one antenna that it needs, although someone did tell meabout parts that could be used). I just use FM and the 6 CD changer. The imagining is beyond belief. My home stereos never sounded this good. Music simply sounds "sweet" in a way I cannot even verbalize, both frequency response and imaging. I did not know a stereo (music system) could sound so good.
All that said, my subwoofer recently seems to have blown. I pulled up the back deck and it looks fine (not corroded) and even vibrates a bit last I checked but I am not getting the bass out of it. I pumped up the bass in the audio settings but i does not fully compensate as it give mid-bass, not the true punch of the subwoofer. Given that the car is 15 years old and I currently drive it 6k a year or so (locally as I do not have a long commute at present), I am not likely to replace it at dealer yet given the cost, and would need to find the right audio shop to consider an alternate speaker (I've seen some Polks mentioned on this forum with the right impedance, etc.). Even so, the imaging is simply incredible, although I do hear that something is missing.
The ML system plus the overall smoothness of the car engine (exhaust noise) plus the headlights (AFS swivelling, very broad light beam that illuminates the side of the road so well) are probably the 3 things that most addict me to this car. No other car I have ever driven (Volvo luxury rentals. etc.) even comes close. If I decide to get another car, I will pull up my Bach Brandenberg Concert CD and Leonard Berstein CD (to test out some bass) and try it in another car to see (as I need some uncompressed lossless source to really tell, MP3s are generally not as good at least as I have burned them off of cds). I've heard Lexicon on Genesis is supposed to be very good but have not "heard" it yet.
Overall, I am shocked when people say they do not like the ML in this particular model. It is one of the highlights of the car and one of the reasons I am so reluctant to part with it... even WITH a subwoofer that recently doesn't seem quite right.
I haven't heard an ML 430 but the base version with slight adjustments is quite good for a car system, it's the only one that has a discernible sound stage and depth that I've played with. Many car systems over image certain items in music and don't have the encapsulating effect I personally like in a system.
My reference system at home consists of Von Schweikert VR5 speakers, vertically amped with McIntosh MC501s for the tweeters and midrange and an MC402 for the low range, a MC2200 tube preamp with balanced connecters to the amps and SA CD player and turntable. Furman power conditioner, audio quest diamond power cables, and solid sliver main cables to the speakers (4 sets at 30ft each), and a bunch of little other things to help isolate components and raise cables off each other and the ground. The system is able to create a soundstage over 7 feet past the speakers to each side and 6 ft into the air and 2 below the ground that has imaging precision to the point I can listen to a live band and predict exactly where people were standing and when checked vs a picture it's accurate almost down to the foot. If not a live show you can tell if the room a singer was recorded in has a glass window and where it was in the room relative to you.
The LS430 is the only car I've listened to so far that creates a similar effect on a smaller scale while others tend to screw up by doing one thing too well and having it stick out. That's a big issue when it comes to audio for me and I prefer everything to blend and balance.
Just drove to get lunch, my settings are flat except the treble is up a notch or two, and balance is to the left 1 line. I have a door speaker that needs refoamed in the pass front and thats another reason I put the balance to the drivers side, takes a little load off of it. At vol 30 I can still hear it some times depending on the mid bass of a song.
The bt45-toy has great sound quality for steaming I think. Ive never complained about the sound, just the source material. Never understood why some people like to put a static-ey sound in their music. for the money that bt45-toy was the best thing Ive bought for this car. It does make you lose your sat radio I think, I never used sat radio so I just stream pandora from my phone, connects quickly and easily, you also get song details on the nav screen.
@Striker223 Also a hell of a sound system! I guess my stuff is further away from audiophile than I thought. Im building a pair of paul carmody classix II's, curious to see how those sound.
This is too cool. I can’t really compete with someone that has a Mac or 8 12’s (holy ****, that is awesome) but I think my home theater system kicks *** for what I paid (pieced together over about a year, all Craigslist finds). I have Klipsch KG 5.5 mains, RF-3ii surrounds, a Denon receiver sending 120/watts channel, and a custom built enclosure tuned to 26 HZ with a JL 12w6 in it getting 500 watts rms. All older equipment but it’ll put a smile on your face, no doubt. When my student loans are paid off I’ll treat myself to some more. Never ends!
I too had to refoam all 4x door woofers + the sub on the rear deck. The rubber surrounds had completely disintegrated on my '02 LS430.
The system sounds excellent to me, but it's clear that the driver's seat position really sounds best, probably due to some clever DSP trickery. It sounds amazing considering the car is 18 years old! I would love to know more about what DSP processing is being applied to the output signal.
Photo below of my audiophile setup in DC:
- Lipinski Signature L707A's
- Lipinski L-301 Monoblock amps
- 15" Lipinski L-150 Sub
- D/A conversion provided by Black Lion modded Avid HD I/O
- Lots of other compressors and EQ's for signal processing
the ML sound is very good. Its very clean and just pure....no distortion. I think sometimes people get confused because they are use to loud and distortion......both of which the ML is not. It's really a nice experience. I once put on Annie Lennox and put an ex in a chair in the middle of the room w a drink and turned the lights out and the music up.....it was amazing.....that is what I equate the ML experience to. Cheers
My system is the pioneer one and have just recently replaced the front door speakers with some Polk's .
I was able to fit them into the standard door box and they are better everywhere and substantially better.
So much so that will be doing the rear door speakers as soon as .
Mine is not ML but I'm pretty sure replacing the ML speakers would give you a similar result .
Speaker tech has changed a lot since the 2000's and I still cannot understand why people are spending the time and money re-foaming when replacement speakers will yield a much better result ??
I have found that if I change the sound settings in the ML stereo to have four passengers (instead of just two in the front seat) the stereo sound is better.
My system is the pioneer one and have just recently replaced the front door speakers with some Polk's .
I was able to fit them into the standard door box and they are better everywhere and substantially better.
So much so that will be doing the rear door speakers as soon as .
Mine is not ML but I'm pretty sure replacing the ML speakers would give you a similar result .
Speaker tech has changed a lot since the 2000's and I still cannot understand why people are spending the time and money re-foaming when replacement speakers will yield a much better result ??
Because it becomes unbalanced and disconnected, it's supposed to be very flat and uniform.
12-26-19, 06:32 AM
People who hate the ML sound system
