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Sure dude. Please tell me more about how awesome your German cars are. Is that why they depreciate more? Or that they cost more in maintenance? Or that their calculated lifespan is 100-125k miles while Toyota/Lexus is 250k+.
Coilover springs do leak. They compress hydraulic oil. Surprised you didn't know that. Are you sure you work on cars?
Your 2012 Audi A8 W12 has depreciated 89%. Avg yearly maint cost $1,500
Your 2015 Audi A8 4.0T has depreciated 77%. Avg yearly maint cost $1,300
Your 2012 Toyota Sequoia has depreciated 64%. Avg yearly maint cost $697
Your 2007 Lexus LS 460 has depreciated 89%. Avg yearly maint cost $478.
My actual ownership expenses for the Audis COMBINED is only 2/3 what I have spent on the 460 and I've had them for COMBINED 2 years longer and have put more miles on them.
The LS430 was absolutely horrible in terms of pets cost and labor times, I actually specifically LEFT Lexus due to how much more it was costing me in parts and time vs the German cars. I would happily total up everything I did to all the cars and their full histories if you want, the W12 has complete logs from new to me and the ONLY thing it ever needed in its whole life was a windshield when at 105 miles.
Everything else is only tire/brake fluid/oil. Same with my 4.0 other than also needing sway bar bushings and brakes one time. My LS460 was a disaster by comparison needing two brake actuators, all suspension arms, valve cover leaks, HPFP leaks, FULL INTERIOR REPLACEMENT, bent rims blown radiator, leaking trans pan, ALL driveline mounts, etc etc....
My Sequoia has 62500 miles and it has had the laser cruse fail, the rear shocks leak and need replacement, a small oil leak from the front cover I haven't addressed yet, and a failed radiator cap and ate one battery for no reason while just sitting in a climate controlled garage doing nothing on a battery tender. It also needed brakes early.....end result is that even though it was bought new it has given me more issues than my German cars.
Tell me more. I actually own examples of both and have heavily worked on both, I pay LESS and spend less time and get hell of a lot more car with better everything with the Germans.
What have you worked on? Have you done anything yourself on the 460? I've worked on 8 of them not including my own and let me tell you repairs are just as bad as any German cost for prices and it has a tendency to break more in stupid ways like the brake actuator. Dealer prices for both brands are the same, I entertain myself by always taking a new to me car to the listed dealer to see what they find wrong. I still have the LITANY of items for my 460 and 430 and all prices the dealer wanted.
My German cars had nothing found by the dealers. Prices to have the same jobs done are nearly 1:1 comparable for the 460 and 4.0A8 but the Audi utterly outclasses the 460 in every aspect except driveline linearity but then again the 4.0 is faster than anything Lexus has ever made and so what if the turbos come in somewhat hard?
The W12 is on another level and not in the conversation with Lexus. You won't believe me but it's also more reliable than any engine Lexus has ever made and there are many of us with over 300k miles without issues. The engine is so much less complex than even a 3UZ since there are NO variable systems other than a 12* intake cam only VVT arc and almost no external seals to fail.
Still that engine doesn't even matter for the sake of long term reliability etc because Lexus never had and never will have anything comparable. That's another reason I left Lexus, but I still love how they make a car and will be trying to find a nice as possible LS600 ultra for my collection.
People that are mechanics usually don't mind buying a car or truck with some problems because of the savings on labour, how did you manage to buy 2 cars that needed so much work or was it so cheap to buy you couldn't say no?
There's nothing special about a mass produced car that's over 10 yrs old from any manufacturer and they're all expensive to repair eventually. Hell, I was cleaning my dash last nite and this happened...freakin junk but maybe it was replaced before. It doesn't keep accurate time anymore so I'll probably put a phone holder in there.
People that are mechanics usually don't mind buying a car or truck with some problems because of the savings on labour, how did you manage to buy 2 cars that needed so much work or was it so cheap to buy you couldn't say no?
There's nothing special about a mass produced car that's over 10 yrs old from any manufacturer and they're all expensive to repair eventually. Hell, I was cleaning my dash last nite and this happened...freakin junk but maybe it was replaced before. It doesn't keep accurate time anymore so I'll probably put a phone holder in there.
WTH! Have you taken the dash apart to see what caused the clock to cave like that?
People that are mechanics usually don't mind buying a car or truck with some problems because of the savings on labour, how did you manage to buy 2 cars that needed so much work or was it so cheap to buy you couldn't say no?
There's nothing special about a mass produced car that's over 10 yrs old from any manufacturer and they're all expensive to repair eventually. Hell, I was cleaning my dash last nite and this happened...freakin junk but maybe it was replaced before. It doesn't keep accurate time anymore so I'll probably put a phone holder in there.
I just got screwed I guess? I was actually trying to buy cars that appeared to have everything fixed already and the 460 in particular is one I wanted low miles on, I knew it had the HPFP leak and valve cover leak and I used that to force $4500 off at the Mazda dealer since that was Lexus price to fix. My argument was fire hazard and they made me sign a "not our issue anymore" for the discount as long as I waived right to blame them. I was not expecting TPMS issues, all engine mounts, all arms, brakes, valley plate, rad, etc etc. I was hoping that the rep (and high price used) of Lexus reliability was real, my 430 was old enough I gave it a pass but this 460 was low mile low owner count etc.
Our two RXs were similar story but they were used and much older so....still sucked to have to do a headliner drop for leaks and a rear main replacement etc etc. I'm not mad at those though since my expectations were lower.
Wow that sucks, did you break a clip or just have it fall through? How much of a pain is that to get to? I have contemplated removing my clocks in the Audis to change the faceplates to custom ones but those are easy to remove.
Anyone want pictures? If you have an air suspension 460 you will need to remove the air strut to do upper arms without a severe fight and when those are off you might as well replace the upper arms. Saves you a lot of time and if you do everything at once you can REALLY save time by just taking the whole subframe off.
I was just wiping the dash with a microfibre cloth and it **** the bed, you have to do the same as putting in an apple play Grom unit because of a couple of clips behind the radio assy.
WTH! Have you taken the dash apart to see what caused the clock to cave like that?
Not yet, I was thinking the ambient light strip above the glove box is still very bright for an old car so maybe it was replaced and some bone head broke something or things there.
I was just wiping the dash with a microfibre cloth and it **** the bed, you have to do the same as putting in an apple play Grom unit because of a couple of clips behind the radio assy.
Originally Posted by Gerf
Not yet, I was thinking the ambient light strip above the glove box is still very bright for an old car so maybe it was replaced and some bone head broke something or things there.
Yeah, I had to remove that part when I did my Grom install...easy peasy. For you it'll only take ~10-15 minutes to remove.
johnny, let the moderators do the moderating please. If you have a problem with another members post, report it and let us review.
For everyone, let’s keep things polite and mature. This is not a euro vs Japanese thread.
Originally Posted by Striker223
My actual ownership expenses for the Audis COMBINED is only 2/3 what I have spent on the 460 and I've had them for COMBINED 2 years longer and have put more miles on them.
The LS430 was absolutely horrible in terms of pets cost and labor times, I actually specifically LEFT Lexus due to how much more it was costing me in parts and time vs the German cars. I would happily total up everything I did to all the cars and their full histories if you want, the W12 has complete logs from new to me and the ONLY thing it ever needed in its whole life was a windshield when at 105 miles.
Everything else is only tire/brake fluid/oil. Same with my 4.0 other than also needing sway bar bushings and brakes one time. My LS460 was a disaster by comparison needing two brake actuators, all suspension arms, valve cover leaks, HPFP leaks, FULL INTERIOR REPLACEMENT, bent rims blown radiator, leaking trans pan, ALL driveline mounts, etc etc....
My Sequoia has 62500 miles and it has had the laser cruse fail, the rear shocks leak and need replacement, a small oil leak from the front cover I haven't addressed yet, and a failed radiator cap and ate one battery for no reason while just sitting in a climate controlled garage doing nothing on a battery tender. It also needed brakes early.....end result is that even though it was bought new it has given me more issues than my German cars.
Tell me more. I actually own examples of both and have heavily worked on both, I pay LESS and spend less time and get hell of a lot more car with better everything with the Germans.
What have you worked on? Have you done anything yourself on the 460? I've worked on 8 of them not including my own and let me tell you repairs are just as bad as any German cost for prices and it has a tendency to break more in stupid ways like the brake actuator. Dealer prices for both brands are the same, I entertain myself by always taking a new to me car to the listed dealer to see what they find wrong. I still have the LITANY of items for my 460 and 430 and all prices the dealer wanted.
My German cars had nothing found by the dealers. Prices to have the same jobs done are nearly 1:1 comparable for the 460 and 4.0A8 but the Audi utterly outclasses the 460 in every aspect except driveline linearity but then again the 4.0 is faster than anything Lexus has ever made and so what if the turbos come in somewhat hard?
The W12 is on another level and not in the conversation with Lexus. You won't believe me but it's also more reliable than any engine Lexus has ever made and there are many of us with over 300k miles without issues. The engine is so much less complex than even a 3UZ since there are NO variable systems other than a 12* intake cam only VVT arc and almost no external seals to fail.
Still that engine doesn't even matter for the sake of long term reliability etc because Lexus never had and never will have anything comparable. That's another reason I left Lexus, but I still love how they make a car and will be trying to find a nice as possible LS600 ultra for my collection.
Striker223, please exit this thread. You've well covered your preference for Euro in this and many other threads... let's keep this forum for LS460s. I also was pretty clear on keeping this polite and continuing the personal callouts was not needed.
I bought OEM rear new airstrut from UAE. Site was shady and communication was Eh. Part arrived as advertised and several weeks in, works great. Will order again if available and i need an OEM swap.
12-19-23, 11:09 AM
