Tdes395

I’ve been thinking about this for sometime and want to see if maybe we can get to the bottom of it. Something happened at Lexus around the 2006-2007 year that resulted in unreliable rubber. It caused the rubber bushings in the control arm to fail. It caused interior components to melt. It caused the sealant around the valley plate gasket to disintegrate.. It caused the gasket around the waterpump to disintegrate.

The first thing that came to my mind was the tsunami that hit possibly causing disruption in the supply chain but that can’t be because the tsunami happened in 2011 I think.
Any mechanics or employees on here that might have some info to share?

FlexnLexus

Hard to say what the issues were and caused premature rubber wear on the LS 460’s vs the prior gens. I think as far as the melting interior materials go, Lexus definitely cheapened some of the interior components compared to the last gen. I don’t know how the whole melting interior components came about, but the quality of materials in the LS 460 is nowhere near the same as the LS 430. You don’t have any interior issues with the older gen’s at all plus everything feels so tightly bolted and screwed together on the LS 430 that is somewhat missing on the 07-12 LS 460’s where the interior can creak and feels less solid at times. Don’t get me wrong, the interiors are still nice and are better put together compared to other luxury cars of the same era but it’s still not as well constructed as the LS 430’s. The higher trim LS 460’s and L models are the way to go which helps you avoid the melting door panel problem which to
me would be the biggest concerns, and also the glove box that is impossible to clean and fix once it gets scrapes and scuff marks on them. Once they do, they look like crap and it ruins the overall look of the interior IMO especially in light colors like tan or cream.

Surprisingly, after recently purchasing a 2005 LS 430 and researching these cars, they too have control arm bushing problems, specifically the lowers, and valve cover gasket leaks, but the problems are not as bad as the LS 460’s are. What I notice the biggest difference between the LS 430 LCA bushings and the LS 460 LCA bushings, is just how beefy and large the LCA bushings and the Lower control arm itself are on the LS 430 vs the LS 460’s. The uppers seem about the same on both cars however. But overall the rubber in between the bushings on both models seem under sized for the weight of these cars.

Age, heat, sun exposure, and not necessarily mileage is what causes rubber to fall apart and break down fast. Using undersized bushings with long suspension travel can be a problem as well.

Even the highest quality rubber components will eventually fail.

I will say maybe the reasons for Lexuses, specifically the LS cars rubber control arm bushings failing faster than say other vehicle makes, is most likely due to their rubber being more compliant and flexible than others to achieve that soft, smooth comfortable ride. The trade off is less longevity of the rubber, and faster wear.

A truck for instance will most likely have much tougher and stronger rubber which is less flexible in their control arm bushing for durability and ruggedness, the truck won’t ride as soft and smooth as an LS, but the bushings won’t need replacement for a much longer period of time either.

Also road conditions depending on where you live can determine the rubber bushing outcome. If you live in a city or town with pristine smooth and flat road surface's, than your bushings and suspension components for that matter will last a very long time, vs someone that lives in a place with roads and highways that are pothole ridden and surfaces that are very uneven and bumpy, there suspension and steering components will get trashed fairly quickly.

Hope that helps a bit.

Tdes395

FlexnLexus

very interesting. Thanks for sharing. In thinking about what you said regarding the control arms, it raises a concern for me mainly whether or not Lexus has ever updated replacement control arm bushings or are they destined to fail again just as before? If the replacement interior panels haven’t improved, are those destined for the same fate as well?

TominPT

I think the heavier weight of the LS460 relative to the LS430 (close to 300 lbs IIRC) might also be a factor re: failure rates of rubber suspension components. The geometry of the upper control arms in the two cars may also be a factor. It shocks me when I see reports of the failures of the rubber suspension components in the LS460 - my '05 LS430 is on its original suspension and it rides perfectly smoothly and quietly, needs nothing, at 143,000 miles.

I also think local climate conditions, including high concentrations of ozone, might affect lifespan of rubber parts, as ozone attacks and degrades rubber.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but melting interior panels found in early years of the 4th Gen LS has nothing to do with rubber or lifespan of suspension components.

Tdes395

Weight, climate, weather all parameters Lexus engineers should be able to reliably design around. It should not be the norm that Lexus needs $7000 worth of suspension repair every 3-4 years. Surely Lexus can find a way to fix their suspension problems.

Striker223

The arms will fail again, no point in buying Lexus parts there vs aftermarket with lifetime warranty. I've also had no issue with aftermarket arms on any cars I've used them on, I also am 99% sure Delphi is who makes them for Lexus anyway based on castings

Striker223

It's not, the superior suspension of a 460 simply can't hide system errors and if even one arm or bushing goes you will feel it and hear it.

The 430 has a far more simple suspension that is far better at hiding the wear, it's still there and you can see it when inspecting or when measuring it on an alignment machine. Main difference is that the double a-arm system can easily hide bushing or joint problems and you simply don't realize there is as much wear as there actually is unless you change out "good" parts for all new.

I did on my 430 and the difference was extremely noticeable for steering sharpness and bump damping. It didn't have anything "wrong" but it was absolutely worn out. They just hide it better unlike the far better system on the 460, the 460 is also much easier to remove and replace the suspension on as well.

Striker223

It's $550 for all of the arms and takes 4-5 hours max to do. I've done 6

Tdes395

dealership prices? Original Lexus parts?
Never mind. I read your answer. How do I delete this comment?

Striker223

No reason to do OE parts when they are the exact same as the factory who makes them and the aftermarket brand.

JohnnyC407

Wrong. This year of Lexus were all made in Japan. Please tell us more how the GM/Delphi plant makes Lexus parts.

Where are Lexus vehicles assembled for the U.S. market?

FlexnLexus

Good points. The 460 definitely has a much more sophisticated suspension setup, especially at the lower arms, which leads to better wheel articulation for a better ride on uneven pavement.

I will say, that my 460L with air suspension does have a very floaty ride that bobs and weaves way more than the 430 does, but the 430 at times feels more isolated from certain vibrations even if it doesn’t have that “float” to it. But it still has a soft ride which is more level and balanced.

My 460 is due for new air struts, so sometime next year I will replace them.

I think depending on the brand, some aftermarket stuff can be better than OEM or at least equivalent.

The rubber durometer rating is what determines the soft/hardness of the actual rubber component. It could be at the time when Lexus first built these cars is that they went for a very soft rubber bushing which doesn’t last as long.

So possibly the newer parts have a slightly higher rubber durometer rating which offsets the wear but still achieves the smooth soft ride of the original ride quality.

So anyone looking into buying new control arms for our cars, might want to ask the company if they can provide the durometer rating if they even know what it is, so you’ll have an idea how soft or firm the rubber is and decide which brand is better for you if you’re looking for longer lasting bushings.

Striker223

Note your article says assembled. Not where the actual sub components are made from raw materials.

I bought one of every single front rearward drivers side arm about two years ago from Lexus and every single aftermarket company I could find. The casting/forging marks on the dealership and Delphi plant were the same, aka they were made in the same die

I also shoved a 3 foot metal dowel though every single one of their bushing ends and hooked a 20lb weight on the end to measure deflection. All were within 5-10% of each other. I did this specifically before buying a full set of 8 since Lexus and other Japanese brands simply REFUSE to just tell you exactly where the OE parts are made.

The Germans tell you the exact plant the parts come from and require none of this extra work. So yeah, Lexus has other companies make their parts just like ANY OTHER BRAND. There is just an extra layer of BS to figure out what to buy at the best prices and guess what? The Delphi parts have a lifetime warranty and I have put 20k on them and beaten the hell out of them (ask people here how I drive) with no issues.

Why should I pay 6x for the same part?

JohnnyC407

Well since you don't know. Assembled means the parts were made in Japan and shipped over and assembled here. Delphi doesn't make any parts for Toyota. You also forgot the part where the Lexus OE parts are labeled MADE IN JAPAN. Which is required by law. Or alternatively you bought counterfeit Lexus parts.

Striker223

Hilarious. Keep reaching, I would certainly hope my dealership isn't giving fakes out. The label means nothing btw, you can print those out and slap them on anything. Assembled means assembled, not produced. Phones are assembled in China with parts made from all over is the easiest example I can use. So many things sold here say "assembled in USA with foreign and domestic parts" for a reason. It's not made here.

You can't easily alter forge/casting marks. Maybe the OE parts have the bushing and sole stuff added/finished in Japan like the black paint on the steel arms. Regardless there is no difference and no reason to pay 6-10x as much as alternatives.

The arms fail due to a bad design, that's why you see the issue on any year of car once they get a little older.