Smooth ride achieved with low-pro tires?
12-26-23, 11:20 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
Sure, it's still a strut system vs air with double A or multi link. No matter how much they improve it it will never compare to the alternative
There isn't much difference between a 2000 econobox and modern one other than the new one benefiting from being 1000lb heavier
There isn't much difference between a 2000 econobox and modern one other than the new one benefiting from being 1000lb heavier
12-26-23, 01:20 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed, which is why I wouldn’t buy such a vehicle for myself.
12-27-23, 10:33 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
The road car equivalent would be spherical bearings and hard bushing mounts for EVERYTHING in the suspension and a fat tire like a 60/70 series. We don't have that. You stack a fat tire on top of normal suspension you get a lot of slop and delay to turn in etc....
If you do want the racy setup buy a 911 RS of some type
12-27-23, 06:53 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
It depends on your definition of “best”. The 430 rode very softly but it was the sloppiest feeling of all the LSs. The 400 and 460 may not ride as softly but IMO they ride “better”
12-27-23, 08:21 PM
#22
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I know I was thinking the exact same thing. The 430 is super smooth.
What I find interesting is how modern cars, especially the flagship sedans, all need air ride suspension with fancy sophisticated multi-link design in order to ride as smooth as luxury cars from the 1970’s.
I plan on swapping out the 18’s that are installed on my 430, for some stock OG chrome 17’s that I recently bought for added riding comfort. The tires are a 55 series, which is still too short for my liking, but is much better than the 45 series that are on the car now.
If you think about it, the LS 460 is pretty heavy for such a small large luxury sedan at 198 inches long and 203 inches long respectively. Weighing in at 4200-4500 lbs depending on the year, model and features.
I mean even the 430 weighs about 4,000lbs and is honestly a mid-size luxury sedan, not a true full sizer, considering that an old 1980’s Cadillac Fleetwood is 221 inches long, with a 121 inch wheelbase, almost 80 inches wide, and it weighs only 4,000 lbs, maybe slightly more. So the LS cars have a lot more mass to them in a smaller footprint.
i just wonder where all that additional mass is coming from besides sound deadening material.
12-27-23, 10:38 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
The 430 is like a volume ****, it just turns everything you feel down very far. The 460 actually erased certain unpleasant motions/vibrations entirely in a way the 430 simply can't. The 430 is also very loose by comparison and has a LOT of secondary motions and "past center point" impulses that it uses to draw out suspension events to make them less noticeable.
The 460 just outright DELETES certain impacts and vibrations from existing at all. It was was one of the first and most major things I noticed they did differently.
12-27-23, 10:39 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
I know I was thinking the exact same thing. The 430 is super smooth.
What I find interesting is how modern cars, especially the flagship sedans, all need air ride suspension with fancy sophisticated multi-link design in order to ride as smooth as luxury cars from the 1970’s.
I plan on swapping out the 18’s that are installed on my 430, for some stock OG chrome 17’s that I recently bought for added riding comfort. The tires are a 55 series, which is still too short for my liking, but is much better than the 45 series that are on the car now.
If you think about it, the LS 460 is pretty heavy for such a small large luxury sedan at 198 inches long and 203 inches long respectively. Weighing in at 4200-4500 lbs depending on the year, model and features.
I mean even the 430 weighs about 4,000lbs and is honestly a mid-size luxury sedan, not a true full sizer, considering that an old 1980’s Cadillac Fleetwood is 221 inches long, with a 121 inch wheelbase, almost 80 inches wide, and it weighs only 4,000 lbs, maybe slightly more. So the LS cars have a lot more mass to them in a smaller footprint.
i just wonder where all that additional mass is coming from besides sound deadening material.
What I find interesting is how modern cars, especially the flagship sedans, all need air ride suspension with fancy sophisticated multi-link design in order to ride as smooth as luxury cars from the 1970’s.
I plan on swapping out the 18’s that are installed on my 430, for some stock OG chrome 17’s that I recently bought for added riding comfort. The tires are a 55 series, which is still too short for my liking, but is much better than the 45 series that are on the car now.
If you think about it, the LS 460 is pretty heavy for such a small large luxury sedan at 198 inches long and 203 inches long respectively. Weighing in at 4200-4500 lbs depending on the year, model and features.
I mean even the 430 weighs about 4,000lbs and is honestly a mid-size luxury sedan, not a true full sizer, considering that an old 1980’s Cadillac Fleetwood is 221 inches long, with a 121 inch wheelbase, almost 80 inches wide, and it weighs only 4,000 lbs, maybe slightly more. So the LS cars have a lot more mass to them in a smaller footprint.
i just wonder where all that additional mass is coming from besides sound deadening material.
The 460 is a lot more solid, rigid, and stable than a 430. You can instantly feel it driving them back to back, that's where the weight went and it's a big deal since the 460 has aluminum suspension and subframes for FAR greater stiffness and lower weight than the steel of the 430. The actual body is almost twice as stiff though and that's where the weight is
12-28-23, 09:23 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
The trick is designing a car that rides well and ALSO handles well. Those old cars rode well, but had no handling capability at all, thats easy to achieve.
The 460 is a lot more solid, rigid, and stable than a 430. You can instantly feel it driving them back to back, that's where the weight went and it's a big deal since the 460 has aluminum suspension and subframes for FAR greater stiffness and lower weight than the steel of the 430. The actual body is almost twice as stiff though and that's where the weight is
12-28-23, 09:37 AM
#26
Racer
This sounds exactly like how I feel about luxury cars on RWD-based platforms vs luxury cars on FWD-based platforms like the Audi A8, Urus, etc.
12-28-23, 09:44 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Those cars all have sophisticated suspension systems though. The difference to the end user in terms of perfomance is much smaller than the difference between a truly FWD car with a mac strut suspension and a RWD car on multi-link or double wishbone
12-28-23, 09:47 AM
#28
Racer
But I hear you and agree
12-28-23, 09:50 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
12-28-23, 09:50 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
Too bad you are wrong and don't understand what a dedicated AWD platform is. You have never owned one and probably haven't driven one.