SW17LS

The S560 has been very reliable, I’m really surprised and pleased by it.

Striker223

That's mostly fair but book times are book times and the LS isn't doing people favors when you combine that with the parts costs. Mercedes is the most expensive of the 4 but the spread isn't that extreme, Audi is by far the cheapest due to how much stuff they share product to product.

SW17LS

European specialists charge way more per hour than Japanese specialists or general mechanics. I just showed you my own numbers, I have spent over twice as much to maintain my S560 than I spent to maintain my LS460L, and parts are way more expensive with the Mercedes.

Striker223

I should probably charge more then is what I'm hearing lol! I charge the same for all cars except exotics due to how long prep takes for those to avoid scratches etc.

msingh5649

Completely Agree! Actually I am not even sure wht it means to be ‘…like a German car…’. I think in the old days, the German cars were the most reliable ala Mercedes, and had the best engineering etc. I am not sure that Lexus has the best engineering, and as noted by latest ConsumerReports-BMW as I recall was ranked as most reliable/best this year.

SW17LS

You absolutely should!

German cars have not been the most reliable brand for many decades.

When we say "like a German car" we mean in complexity. The LS400 and LS430 were pretty basic compared to an S Class or a 7 Series, they had pretty basic port injected naturally aspirated engines, relatively simple double wishbone suspension and a lack of features and technology by comparison...air suspension was optional while the germans have it standard, etc. Those differences made the German flagship cars better performing, but also more expensive to maintain and repair. The LS460 by comparison is way more complex than the 400 and 430 and is more similar to those German competitors. With that comes more maintenance and repair costs...but they are still cheaper to maintain than the Germans because parts are cheaper, labor rates are cheaper and they are still more reliable.

BMW has made great strides in reliability, but that doesn't change the fact that a more complex car will always be costlier to maintain and have more needs than a less complex car.

JRA2000TL

So, my car should be done today. After watching this video, I asked my service advisor if those injector seals had to be replaced; he stated that they didn't. I'm confused as to why Ahmed says they need to be. If they're not disturbed and not leaking, why? Looks like it's cheap insurance while they're in there, and it doesn't appear that you have to remove the injectors from the rail. Maybe that's why he suggests it.

My advisor called me yesterday afternoon to give me an update and said that the harness did not need to be replaced, and the tech had a really difficult time getting that injector out (maybe just the 1 in the video, or do multiple have to be removed?). The tech fought with it for 2 hours, but nothing was damaged, so I should be at the lower end of the repair, which is good news. What concerns me is that I looked at another LS serviced by my local dealer, and in the history, they had the valley plate repair done and came back due to a fuel smell; so something had to be redone. I suppose they did break something. At least they should back the repair. I'm paying the extra to have it done at the dealer, since they've done these countless times, and it's an expensive repair I'd rather not deal with again or for awhile. The advisor also said he'd give me a free Auto Butler. I know it's just a spray on wax, but I thought it was a nice gesture. Those things are usually $100 per application or a $700-900 total package gimmick that F&I sells with all of their other "mop n' glo" packages. I was going to detail the car this weekend, but I'll wait if he's going to apply that coating.

My loaner is an ES350 just like my Mom's. Man, I HATE the seats in those, total back busters. It's a quieter car than my 11, handles on rails with no body roll, but it seems rather plain and the lack of seat comfort ruins the car as a daily driver. The Apple Car Play is wonderful, Nuluxe interior material is better than typical cheap vinyl, but not near as nice as leather; very durable. The accelerator is the floor mounted type like the LS, but I don't like the way it is on the new ES. It takes more pressure to get the car going, but then, all of a sudden, it's too much and the car accelerates too quickly; takes some getting used to. I'm ready to have my LS back. Definitely going for a 6th gen 14-18 model year range to replace my daily eventually. I can't justify the money for the newer ones. The white interior in mine is beautiful, but would get filthy easily.

I'll post an update when it's done with the breakdown of the repairs on the RO.

Lwerewolf

Just a few comments.

Multilink by itself doesn't define the suspension. It's a double wishbone with a virtual pivot. You can have great simple double a-arms and not so great multilinks - check the 4GS vs F10 5-series comparisons of the day (actually, I'm sure that you of all people are aware ).
Bushings (the front UCA ones) don't necessarily have to fail so often when it's a multilink configuration - this is not an alfa romeo. Oil burning with DI - definitely not necessarily, and afaik might have more to do with companies experimenting with low tension rings at the time. Any engine will clog the oil rings over time if you use sub-par oil and/or abuse the maintenance intervals (i.e. not reading the "if you drive the car in any way other than 100mi+ single trips on the highway with no idling whatsoever" bit of the user's manual) - and people tend to abuse that more on Toyotas/Lexii. Combine that with way worse OEM oils... and it's a bit of a miracle that, say, the 8AR-FTS is as reliable as it is.

My biggest gripe with the LS460 is that the brake actuator doesn't have serviceable/replaceable/easily inspectable booster motor brushes - same with a ton of other Toyotas (all hybrids + most of their high-end vehicles + some midrangers + the LFA of all things, interestingly enough). Wouldn't be an issue if there was ample warning, as right now it's a matter of "if you see ANY brake-related lights on the dash, IMMEDIATELY brake gently without actuating the ABS as you're already risking suddenly losing all brake boost". Even with that, it tends to be far better than any other remotely comparable car - or at least compared to the locals that are all too prevalent here (living in the EU ). Well, with the exception of the non-serviceable air struts, perhaps - but the LS460 has coil options, so meh.

It's the other way around here - parts-wise and labor-wise, and there are plenty of very reputable aftermarket / remanufactured / etc. parts for when things go wrong. A jap is still generally less hassle

Boykie

Who the f is 'Ahmed'??? Stop disrespecting Amd, that's Nut's name!

JRA2000TL

It is actually Ahmed. If you look at the Village of Homer Glen where his shop is located, it was on the board agenda to get approved for him to open a shop in that business complex. I looked him up one day because I figured AMD was an alias or nickname.

SW17LS

Thats Amd's mentality, over-maintain and over-replace.

Well aware, but in general a multi-link setup allows more accurate wheel placement at all different levels of steering input and suspension load than a double wishbone setup. Thats why Lexus went to that suspension design. BMW has long been a stalwart user of double wishbone setups even in their high end cars, but Lexus was clearly targeting Mercedes and the multi-link is what Mercedes uses.

Multi-link front suspensions are always more prone to worn bushings because of the loads placed on the bushings. Again, the LS460 was Lexus' first use of a multi-link front suspension so of course there are growing pains.

There are absolutely ample warning signs of brake actuator failure, you start getting clicking noises when braking that are very obvious.

That makes sense being in Europe

Gerf

Although I've never done this repair on a 460, because of the location I would be having nightmares if I didn't replace those o-rings and anything else that looked sketchy in that area.

Lwerewolf

Ehh.. BMW and double wishbone? The Germans (well, most?) are very well known for using macPherson struts for the fronts - of the multi-link variety too. Not so much on the S-Class/7-series, but the E/C-class and 5/3-series... let's say that Toyota/Lexus has always used at least double wishbones for their mid-range+ RWD vehicles. Doesn't necessarily make for better overall chassis behaviour - a notable example being the e90 m3 vs the pre- and post-2011 IS-F - 2011+ brought an actual torsen diff + stiffer bushings and differently valved shocks, which resulted in stellar reviews, whereas the OG version was... well, not too well-received. Had double wishbones up front, though - as per usual. The various porches are yet another example. Multilink is a means to an end, and is not necessarily required for achieving great performance.

Anyways, haven't heard of any specific bushing issues with any of the numerous multi link cars commonly driven around here. It's almost always some electrical gremlin or some engine (or transmissions, especially if it's the all-too-prevalent-in-non-performance-cars dual clutch) issue. Regardless, there are soft polyurethane options for the stock upper control arms if it's a daily. Might be that the revised 2013+ arms have no issues too.

Clicking noises during braking? There aren't a whole lot of non-hybrid EBD-equipped Toyotas here, but there are plenty of mercs with the SBC system that don't really exhibit anything of the sort before a sudden failure - and I'm not talking about the "you've pressed on the brakes too many times" counter "failure". Not really an issue since Bosch sells spare motor assemblies (and hydraulic accumulators, if you need them) that you can just preventatively swap out if you have such a car - which not many people do, but that's not really an issue with the cars or the system. Funnily enough, these things tend to wear out the commutator and not the brushes, which might also be a case of insufficient brush spring pressure - which may have been "resolved" over time with newer batches - just food for thought.

SW17LS

What the Germans use is technically a Macpherson strut but its a hybrid of a multi-link and mac strut setup, its nothing like what we think of when we think of a macpherson strut suspension in say a FWD Lexus ES. BMW uses that in the lower end cars including the 3 and 4 series but the 5 Series and up is double wishbone.

Its just not something that people consider an issue, its an issue in Lexus circles because Lexus owners and techs aren't used to dealing with it. Control arm replacement on an S Class prior to 100k miles is also common.

Polyurethane hurts the ride, and there are plenty of examples of 13-17 cars that have also had control arm replacements done. Its just par for the course.

I'm talking about the LS460. I have had an LS460 that has had a brake actuator replacement, it was plainly obvious there were issues with the actuator and there were never any warnings displayed on the dash, eventually there would have been had it actually failed. Most people just have the clicking and all and it annoys them but it doesn't result in actual failure.

HushedRide

Anyone point out the fact the Youtuber drives an old S-Class as his primary car?

The LS460 is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new flagship sedan and gets 90% of the way there. Almost as quiet as the best new flagships, ride is still very good, sound system is better than anything I've experienced -- by far, auto high beams/wipers as good as anything I've tried (non-matrix), seats are good, power is still very good, handling sucks (lol).

If you look at it that way, then what's the problem? I get that it has some parts that could have been designed better. Can't always get (exactly) what you want.

If you're on a budget that is less than the average new car price, don't screw yourself over with a car - any car. No car is worth losing your financial freedom.