SW17LS

I gotta get my jollies somewhere lol

DJJG

I'm new to this forum, and I've owned a variety of cars. According to AMD you should get an ES, or LS430. According to Scotty Kilmer you should get a Toyota Celica.

Here are my two cents from a working man:
Yeah the LS430 may be more reliable, but so is a bicycle. An LS430 feels old inside, no matter what you do, and frankly even a little cheap. Outside my wife thinks its an old man's car, while my LS460 outside looks more like an old mobster's car (ie a bit more cool). For God's sake its got 100 more horsepower. Its a different car. Mine is black inside, I feel like a herd of cattle were slaughtered just for the door panel, and tribes in the Amazon were displaced just to harvest the wood. Its the only car I need to turn down the bass. And God forbid if you have a belly or are a little tall; the ES will not cut it especially if you need to use the backseat.

When I was looking at these cars, I saw that a lower mileage (less than 100k) on an LS460 still would go around 15k+ (one that didnt look like it came out of a retirement home). Folks those also arent necessarily the cheapest as well. I've got a 2009 LS460, it was a little bit more, but still affordable.

Each one of my cars I feel like a different person. This one makes me feel like a million bucks after a long day at work with a really long commute. And I can tell you they dont make cars like this anymore; everything now is with screens screens screens and turbos.

AMD would be more of a mensch if he could post a video on how to fix those common issues. Otherwise its just fear ****.

SW17LS

And bear in mind Amd owned a W221 S Class...and he made videos about how much he loved it despite calling it a "nightmare to live with" in a later video. Reliability isn't everything, even to him.

DJJG

Yes I remember that, in fact I was also looking for a W221 S Class before I found the LS460.

Sometimes his smugness reminds me a bit of old liberals who went to Ivy League colleges.

FlexnLexus

Sometimes the most impressive and performing cars might not be the most reliable, and that is perfectly fine.

This is why many will still fork out a ton of dough for an S-Class knowing that it might start having reliability issues later down the road which could bankrupt most people, but the well to do don’t care about reliability as much, since in their mind, they plan on replacing that 3 year old S-Class for a new one.

This is why I believe for years, the luxury German brands have simply neglected trying to be very “reliable”, and focused more on the ultra high end performance, latest techs and advanced features in their vehicles which their customers demand.

But even today, we are seeing tons of plastic parts making their way into luxury vehicles powertrain which screams utter cheapness.

Getting inside my 05 430 definitely feels like I stepped “way back” in time compared to my 07 460 which feels a lot more modern even to this day, compared to the 430.

Both cars are awesome and I enjoy driving both, but I have to say, I tend to cherish my 430 a bit more, and want try to preserve it as much as I can since these cars are getting very hard to come by in really nice condition for a reasonable price. Since it seems lately the 04-06 low mileage LS 430’s are selling for outrageous asking prices, while you can still find some nice LS 460’s out there for much more reasonable prices, but then, it depends on the trim package you’re getting and what features it has which can really affect the price of the car. The 430 does have a better build quality than my 460, better materials and the fit n finish is tighter as well. I noticed this right away with the door panel comparison, and door closing. The 430 feels a lot nicer especially in the CL or UL package trim with the stitched leather panels.

After owning my 156,000 mile 07 460L model with air suspension, the only repairs I have had to do, is, nothing.

Just basic routine maintenance, and installing new brakes, and a brake flush within the last month. The engine does burn some oil, so I am always having to top it off here and there. It’s still very quiet and smooth to drive, although I do now need new air struts all around as the car has started to ride too bouncy.

I personally have always felt that the LS 430 is way too small to be considered a large luxury sedan, especially as someone that has owned old school Cadillacs and Lincoln Continental land yachts which put both the 430 and 460 to shame in terms of riding comfort and overall true luxury car size.

To me, as wonderful as the 430 is, it’s more mid-size, while the 460L models does feel a bit more like a proper full size luxury sedan, especially on the interior mainly backseat legroom and its creature comforts. The longer rear doors gives the car a slight “Fleetwood” vibe to me

Now, as we all talk about which car rides better, and is smoother to drive, nothing compares, even I am sure a brand new S-Class, rides as smoothly, isolating and is softly sprung than a mid 70’s Cadillac Deville or Fleetwood and a 70’s Lincoln Continental Town Car edition. Those both cars have a basic suspension setup, nothing sophisticated at all, a simple rear 4 or 3 link coil spring setup, SLA suspension up front, yet these cars ride smooth as glass and can take serious punishment from terrible road conditions.

So a luxury car doesn’t need any of this crazy suspension design to ride smooth and to feel total isolation. What’s desperately missing in all of this, is a separate body on frame which is far superior when it comes to NVH levels over any unibody constructed car. Ask me how I know all of this? I’ve owned many classic Caddy’s and Lincoln’s from the past and the best riding cars i have ever owned so far is my 64 Cadillac Sedan Deville and my 78 Lincoln Continental that just glides over everything with complete silence and ultimate smoothness.

Sure the 460 and 430 might be quieter to drive than those big boats of the past, but when I drive over a very rough patch of road where I live, and the asphalt is all tore up, I will get road impacts, and vibrations entering the cabin of both cars, while I would feel nothing at all in my Cad or Lincoln. Plus the door glass is extremely thick on these old cars, it’s almost bulletproof looking lol. You barely hear cars driving past you.

Everyones experience will be different depending on how their 460 was maintained from their previous owners, to say which car is more reliable really depends on how well that 460 or 430
was taken care of and how the previous owners drove the car. I’d say the later 13+ models are the ones to buy because you avoid the sticky interior panels of the earlier models. Which was a huge eyesore for our cars. I might upgrade to the newer 13 on up years if I can find a nice low mileage one that’s an L
model. It’s either L, or nothing! 😎😁

SW17LS

The difference in when you go to turn in those old cars. A car does need all of that suspension design to deliver a soft smooth ride AND be able to corner with confidence and stability. Those old cars were great in a straight line, but when the road became curvy in any way they were a real chore to drive.

Thats where the Germans really excel, in suspension design and the duality it gives their cars.

Wreck1983

This is a very interesting thread to read as a brand new 2016 LS460 owner (26k mile S California car). I have been a Mercedes owner for the past 38 years - everything from the lowly 1986 190E to a 2009 E63 AMG and many chassis/models in between. I just sold my 09 E63 AMG after 6 years of ownership. I have always had (and able to afford) an open checkbook stance toward my cars. In June 2018, I purchased the E63 for $21,500. Sticker was $104,768. Car had 68k miles on it. I added 66k miles over 6 years. I kept all my repair and parts invoices along with Blackstone oil analysis reports for every oil change because of the AMG M156 engine (yes, the one with the head bolts issue). In six years of ownership, I have spent $39,256 in parts and repairs (not counting tires, brakes). That is an average of just over $6k/year. Never in a wreck, just a high maintenance car. I am about to retire, so my need for a high performance status car is overcome by fiscal responsibility. I wanted a low mileage 16/17 LS460 w/o air suspension that lived nowhere near the rust belt. My wife has driven a 2014 ES350 for the past 7 years and 80k miles with zero costs beyond tires/brakes/fluids. I get the love affair with the LS430 and the simplistic design and mechanicals. I feel the same way about the Mercedes W126 from 1981-1991 - the greatest car ever built, IMO. If Mercedes would only continue to support this chassis with parts, I would be a happy camper.

I read all these posts arguing about the valley coolant leak and $1,500 repair and LMAO. I spent 4x that repair every year for the past 6 years on the E63. I loved my E63 for the performance, looks and smile I had on my face when I was able to drive it. I will miss that car, but not the $$$$ to maintain it.

Lighten up, my fellow Lexus LS owners - these cars are fantastic to own and drive. The more Lexus tries to compete with MB and BMW, the worse their cars will become. That is why I wanted the 4th Gen LS (normally aspirated v8) and not the 5th Gen LS.

My Mercedes ownership:

1986 W201 190E
1987 W126 560SEC
1995 W124 E420
1994 W124 E500
2002 W215 CL500
1990 W126 560SEC
1984 W126 500SEL AMG show car, still own
1985 W126 500SEC AMG widebody under restoration, still own
2009 W211 E63 AMG just sold

I will never own another MB past 1995. Parts availability for W126 and W124 chassis cars is beyond ridiculous! Mercedes has abandoned all chassis > 10 years old except the W198 300SL Gullwing.

SW17LS

I know, it’s so minuscule by comparison. Since this thread my 2020 S560 had a valve cover gasket leak at 50,000 miles that required the whole front end to be disassembled to get access, if I had been paying at the dealer it would have been $9,000.

But, tell me again how terrible the valley plate leak is lol

Striker223

Lol for real. I can't even get parts for that much for some stuff on my car!

LS460Crown

Home run post, thank you. I've owned my 2010 LS460 for eight years, I've only now, at 169,000 replaced the entire air suspension, at a cost of approximately $6k. That's really all I've spent on the car outside of normal service like replacing spark plugs, etc. It's been a highly reliable vehicle, and it's still in great condition, Lexus replaced all the door panels at their cost. I know the LS430 is a great car, but as everyone has noted, it feels old inside when you drive it, I much prefer my 460. The eight speed transmission allows me to get 28 mpg on the highway. It's just comfortable and I would love to see if I can get it to 300k without any other major items going bad. You made a good choice retiring the specialty MB, pardon the pun, as you have entered your own retirement.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

I've owned my current 2014 LS460 for 7 years now (bough it used, CPO with 27,000 miles on it). It now has 78,000 miles on it. Other than oil changes and brake fluid changes I've haven't put another penny into the car (I currently have a broken MAF sensor connector, but I think an over zealous dealership service guy probably broke that). I had a 2007 before that which was similarly reliable. I own a 1999 RX300 which I bought new and still use as a daily driver.

Prior to my LS, I owned BMWs. All things considered, they weren't too bad, reliability-wise but not as good as the Lexus.

slightreturn

I would have to agree with this. We had a '15 LS460 AWD, and we still have an '05 LS430 base/premium, both purchased new. The LS460, mostly driven by my wife, was very nice, there's no doubt about it. Only thing I despised in the 460 was the silly mouse control for the ICE system ... utterly horrible.

Anyhow they are very different cars. An LS430 is almost like an uber-facelifted LS400 ... they are very very similar in overall conception. An LS460 is a totally different thing ... much bigger, heavier, and more powerful car. From outside the car, the 460 is much more attractive, but from inside the car, I personally prefer the huge glass area on the 430. The 430 has a bit more headroom but both have plenty unless you're Shaq. The 460 was in the shop a few times, and repairs were expensive, but being fair it was pretty rare. The engine made a distinct clicking sound at idle, which I guess is an artifact of its DI system or something. It's a tiny bit annoying if you have the radio off. At any rate the tech told me that was totally normal. I would say the grade of leather used for the interior seems quite a bit more heavy-duty in the 430, but certainly both are nice. Seems to me the trunk is way bigger in the 430 but I can't recall for sure. Both seem pretty similar in terms of interior noise; they're pretty darn quiet.

The main reason I've hung on to the 430 is that it's so simple to fix most things; fixing the 460 is above my pay grade for the most part. The thing I love about my daily driver 430 is, it's so generic and anonymous and relaxing. Understated but capable. You would never be accused of "trying too hard," driving a 430!!

SW17LS

That’s actually exactly what it is.

Doesn’t sound like the LS460 is terrible at all from this description lol. Bigger, more powerful, better looking. Terrible!

As for interiors, your 460 didn’t have the semi-aniline leather. Big difference, I’ve had them with both.

gripau1

Did the valley pipes get upgraded on the 2015-2017 JDM LS460?

SW17LS

I doubt it