agreed.

 

The market for buyers of $115K 500+HP cars who give a crap about gas mileage is um, tiny?

 

I don't buy the 30 mpg claimed by dealer mentioned above for the LS600h, I don't think even the GS450h can get that. But I think the LS600h will get better gas mileage than the LS460 on average, it will save gas with the gasoline engine shut off during city traffic . . .

 

you sure? the rx330 has like low to mid 20s on gas mileage, but the 400h does over 30mpg. the 430 engine now does around 20mpg mix driving. the ls460 seems to have a bit better mileage than the current 430. even if it's just around 20, i am still looking forward to the 600h making around 30mpg

 

From what I' ve read, the RX400h only gets slightly better than 30 mpg in city driving only, about 27 or 28 average, I think some in the RX forum claimed they didn't even get close to that, depending on how they drive . . .

 

hehee, that for sure i mean, who can imagine me with my heavily modified gs400 i can get over 19mpg

 

Easy - you drive like an old man.

 

about 30%-35% difference from 300 to 400h from what people who own both have posted, plus v8 performance. i think if someone invented an v8 that goes as fast and gets as good mileage as rx400h, it would be as second coming of jc. :-).

actually, even ze germans are turning around, in recent test - AMS mag from Germany reviewed VW Touareg V10 TDI, ML500 V8 and RX400h were reviewed and hybrid ended up being the best option - still faster than V10 diesel and much better mpg than diesel and a helluva better than V8 (50% over their average consumption during the test).

its pretty big thing when one of the biggest german car magazines, that is syndicated to 27 countries, calls an hybrid better over V10 diesel :-).

 

You might be right but I haven't seen Lexus be very concerned about performance in all honesty. If they are going to seriously go after the 115K 500hp sedan market they need much better driving dynamics than they have delivered so far, not a cute way to come up with the hp. It is actually a lot easier to get 500hp from a pure gas engine and you won't be lugging around a couple hundred pounds of batteries. So I figured that the market they were looking at were the wealthy tree hugger crowd.

If the ride/handling remains Lexus LS like, they are better off not going that expensive but this is all speculation anyway. The base powerplant sounds fine to me and with the price of gas in its ever upward spiral, it is about all the power I would like to feed. One other magazine I was looking at yesterday that had an article on the auto show said that the price increases for the new LS would be "moderate" and I tend to believe that more than a 115K hybrid LWB. I don't know why, it is just that I am not convinced that Lexus thinks there is that much market to justify going after it.

 

I'm with you on this one, RON. Lexus, IMO, does not need to put in AMG-levels of HP and torque. They built their reputation on quality, refinement, and reliability, and there's an old saying....if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I have my doubts about the $115 K price for a loaded LS600h too. My guess is it will more likely be just $100K at the most.

If they indeed price it as high as $115K, I think there will most definitely be other exclusive extra's included in the model other than the electric motor. They may add a different body kit & fancier wheels that can add $6-$10K easy (look at the prices of the AMG kit & wheels packages) that will further distinguish it as a hybrid (survey have shown hybrid owners want their cars more distinguisable from the regular)

As for V12 like power, it's not always about more sporty ride/handling, but the prestige of the model. The S600 is less sportily tuned than the S55/65 AMG's.

V12 models are always the most prestigeous & on a different level. None of the manufacturers making them are looking to sell many of them, but just as a halo car to showcase what they can do. Lexus is just using the hybrid synergy drive as an alternate to using a V12.

Toyota is the leader in hybrid technology now, so I think the LS600h is more of a showcase of what they can do with their hybrid technolgy on a high end prestige car. They have invested a lot on it, not just for the short or mid term, but they plan to implement the same technology on future fuel cell cars as well, & would like to gain more experience & further refine it by using the technology on most(all) of their models.

 

http://www.japanesecarfans.com...L.jpg

it is from an FJ article...i decided to look at the photos of the FJs, and then this one caught my eye

i thought it was the Infiniti M at first, and then i looked more closely, and it was covered up...at first i thought it was the ES, but i looked even closer...it has the LS wheels, and it has the same C-pillar

i thought it was interesting...i wonder where the shots were taken, and i wonder why all the shots are of the FJ which has already debuted and not the LS

nothing big, but it's interesting

 

black LS460L....nice!

 

it's the long wheelbase version too

i love the black...i love the white...oh heck...i love it

btw...i love how you chopped your sig

 

Coool. Thanks for forwarding the spyshot. Both the LS and the FJ look great there.