A few questions about the all new 4.6L V8 and how easy/hard it will be to repair
10-30-06, 06:05 PM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
A few questions about the all new 4.6L V8 and how easy/hard it will be to repair
Is the starter still located in the middle of the motor or did they fix that seriously bad design issue from the old 4.0/4.3?
Is the new 4.6L an interference motor or not? The 4.0/4.3 was not but now that it's using a timing chain I figured there might be a reason for it...
Will the timing chain be more difficult than the timing belt to replace? Typically they are more difficult since they're a sealed design, but I know the belts on the old models weren't the easiest to get to so I figured maybe they made it easier in the process?
What about the A/C compressor? Alternator? How hard do those look like they'll be to replace?
Is the waterpump still designed to be replaced every 100k miles? Seems like before they said 'you might as well change the water pump every time you change the timing belt, so we will make the waterpump a cheaper somewhat disposable design with that in mind, rather than make it outlast the timing belt and require separate replacement at some later point'.
But now we have a timing chain that should more or less last forever - I mean I'll bet they recommend you replace it at 120k or 150k miles, but theoretically if it's not an interference motor, most people would just let it ride and see how long it runs. But if the waterpump is designed to be replaced every so often - how often is it this time?
How easy are the plugs to change this go round? I never did it in my GS400 but saw that Lexus charged a very pretty penny to do it - how long of a job was it on the old motor, and how long of a job is it on this new motor?
Where is the oil filter placed now and is the new design with the replaceable paper filter any easier to work with?
I believe I heard the transmission fluid and coolant are considered to be sealed lifetime systems now - never needing to be replaced. Right? I know my wife's 05 4runner's trans doesn't even have a dip stick anymore and the manual says to never replace it. I really wonder how that works? I thought transmissions built up 'gunk' over a while that required flushing. Was that the falt of the fluid or worn parts or both?
I guess my thought process here is I'm mildly disappointed at how much money and effort it takes to keep 'the most reliable car brand made' running properly. When my parent's old 1996 'piece of crap' Taurus was specifically designed to where no major maintenance was recommended for the first 110k miles. And when that time did come, it wasn't difficult to work on at all. Parts were cheap, design was understandable, and most parts were very easy to get to.
All in all, despite Lexus reliability - if somebody gave you an LS430 and a Toyota Camry 4-cyl... both for free - so the initial purchase price difference is ignored...the LS430 would still far more expensive and far less practical to own and keep running than the Camry.
I know and understand that the Lexus flagship is by default going to be more complex and extensive in design in order to be the flagship... but with that said I would kinda hope they would put even MORE money into the quality of the parts, and more importantly MORE time and money into designing a car that's not frustratingly difficult to work on (like a starter jammed into the middle of the motor for the last 17 years of Lexus car V8 motors).
Sure the LS feels a whole lot higher quality than a Camry... but if my cost of keeping the darn thing running is twice as high after 100k miles on the LS (even having an independent mechanic do the work)... then what good did that quality really do? Make me feel warm and fuzzy inside?
I mean people might buy a Honda Accord over a Chevy Malibu if they think it's going to have half the problems in their term of ownership. But if the Accord, in reality, requires twice the maintenance at twice the expense and those "half of the repairs" still cost three times as much to complete - what the heck is the point??
Sorry for rambling, I just hope Lexus made forward progress in ease of maintenance and repair on their first all new V8 design in 17 years - rather than overlook what will happen as the car ages and just focus on getting as many horsepower, cool toys, gears, and reliability out of the car without consideration to WHEN it breaks, how easy is it to fix?
Is the new 4.6L an interference motor or not? The 4.0/4.3 was not but now that it's using a timing chain I figured there might be a reason for it...
Will the timing chain be more difficult than the timing belt to replace? Typically they are more difficult since they're a sealed design, but I know the belts on the old models weren't the easiest to get to so I figured maybe they made it easier in the process?
What about the A/C compressor? Alternator? How hard do those look like they'll be to replace?
Is the waterpump still designed to be replaced every 100k miles? Seems like before they said 'you might as well change the water pump every time you change the timing belt, so we will make the waterpump a cheaper somewhat disposable design with that in mind, rather than make it outlast the timing belt and require separate replacement at some later point'.
But now we have a timing chain that should more or less last forever - I mean I'll bet they recommend you replace it at 120k or 150k miles, but theoretically if it's not an interference motor, most people would just let it ride and see how long it runs. But if the waterpump is designed to be replaced every so often - how often is it this time?
How easy are the plugs to change this go round? I never did it in my GS400 but saw that Lexus charged a very pretty penny to do it - how long of a job was it on the old motor, and how long of a job is it on this new motor?
Where is the oil filter placed now and is the new design with the replaceable paper filter any easier to work with?
I believe I heard the transmission fluid and coolant are considered to be sealed lifetime systems now - never needing to be replaced. Right? I know my wife's 05 4runner's trans doesn't even have a dip stick anymore and the manual says to never replace it. I really wonder how that works? I thought transmissions built up 'gunk' over a while that required flushing. Was that the falt of the fluid or worn parts or both?
I guess my thought process here is I'm mildly disappointed at how much money and effort it takes to keep 'the most reliable car brand made' running properly. When my parent's old 1996 'piece of crap' Taurus was specifically designed to where no major maintenance was recommended for the first 110k miles. And when that time did come, it wasn't difficult to work on at all. Parts were cheap, design was understandable, and most parts were very easy to get to.
All in all, despite Lexus reliability - if somebody gave you an LS430 and a Toyota Camry 4-cyl... both for free - so the initial purchase price difference is ignored...the LS430 would still far more expensive and far less practical to own and keep running than the Camry.
I know and understand that the Lexus flagship is by default going to be more complex and extensive in design in order to be the flagship... but with that said I would kinda hope they would put even MORE money into the quality of the parts, and more importantly MORE time and money into designing a car that's not frustratingly difficult to work on (like a starter jammed into the middle of the motor for the last 17 years of Lexus car V8 motors).
Sure the LS feels a whole lot higher quality than a Camry... but if my cost of keeping the darn thing running is twice as high after 100k miles on the LS (even having an independent mechanic do the work)... then what good did that quality really do? Make me feel warm and fuzzy inside?
I mean people might buy a Honda Accord over a Chevy Malibu if they think it's going to have half the problems in their term of ownership. But if the Accord, in reality, requires twice the maintenance at twice the expense and those "half of the repairs" still cost three times as much to complete - what the heck is the point??
Sorry for rambling, I just hope Lexus made forward progress in ease of maintenance and repair on their first all new V8 design in 17 years - rather than overlook what will happen as the car ages and just focus on getting as many horsepower, cool toys, gears, and reliability out of the car without consideration to WHEN it breaks, how easy is it to fix?
10-30-06, 08:56 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Good post. But don't expect Lexus to make the car easier to work on for DIYers - the service dept. is the most profitable part of a dealership BY FAR. 
10-31-06, 04:51 PM
#3
Driver
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is the starter still located in the middle of the motor or did they fix that seriously bad design issue from the old 4.0/4.3? Is the new 4.6L an interference motor or not? Will the timing chain be more difficult than the timing belt to replace? What about the A/C compressor? Alternator? How hard do those look like they'll be to replace?
Is the waterpump still designed to be replaced every 100k miles? How easy are the plugs to change this go round? Where is the oil filter placed now and is the new design with the replaceable paper filter any easier to work with?Sorry for rambling, I just hope Lexus made forward progress in ease of maintenance and repair on their first all new V8 design in 17 years - rather than overlook what will happen as the car ages and just focus on getting as many horsepower, cool toys, gears, and reliability out of the car without consideration to WHEN it breaks, how easy is it to fix?
Is the waterpump still designed to be replaced every 100k miles? How easy are the plugs to change this go round? Where is the oil filter placed now and is the new design with the replaceable paper filter any easier to work with?Sorry for rambling, I just hope Lexus made forward progress in ease of maintenance and repair on their first all new V8 design in 17 years - rather than overlook what will happen as the car ages and just focus on getting as many horsepower, cool toys, gears, and reliability out of the car without consideration to WHEN it breaks, how easy is it to fix?
I hope you're not staying up late at night worrying about this kinda stuff.
My uncle drove his first LS400 until it had 150,000 miles, and he swore by the absolute reliability of that car. Hoping my new LS460L is just as good in that regard, but anything should be an improvement after recent experiences with our local BMW, Benz, and VW/Audi dealers and their products. Great cars (BMW M3, Mercedes G500, Mercedes E55, and VW Phaeton) that were let down by quirky reliability issues, snooty dealers, and generally poor service...
10-31-06, 07:32 PM
#4
lol, you are getting worked up about things you dont even know about :-).
1. Timing chain is self-adjusting and lasts lifetime.
2. Transmission fluid is lifetime, no need to check or replace it ever.
3. I believe that coolant is long life which lasts 5 years or 100,000 miles.
Sure doesnt look like they didnt try to make it easier to maintain :-).
1. Timing chain is self-adjusting and lasts lifetime.
2. Transmission fluid is lifetime, no need to check or replace it ever.
3. I believe that coolant is long life which lasts 5 years or 100,000 miles.
Sure doesnt look like they didnt try to make it easier to maintain :-).
10-31-06, 09:38 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
lol, you are getting worked up about things you dont even know about :-).
1. Timing chain is self-adjusting and lasts lifetime.
2. Transmission fluid is lifetime, no need to check or replace it ever.
3. I believe that coolant is long life which lasts 5 years or 100,000 miles.
Sure doesnt look like they didnt try to make it easier to maintain :-).
1. Timing chain is self-adjusting and lasts lifetime.
2. Transmission fluid is lifetime, no need to check or replace it ever.
3. I believe that coolant is long life which lasts 5 years or 100,000 miles.
Sure doesnt look like they didnt try to make it easier to maintain :-).
Not all timing chains are self-adjusting... some will start to expand a bit and need replacement after a while. I'm also still cautious of the word "lifetime"... I mean I know most manual transmission fluid has been 'lifetime' for a couple decades now but people still sometimes change it, and with good results.
So coolant is not lifetime? I coulda swore I heard somebody say it was, at least on some Lexus vehicle or another.
Easier to maintain? Well I dunno - again, is the starter still jammed underneath the upper and lower intake manifolds? How easy are the plugs to change? When the coolant does require replacement is the process any easier now days? What about pad and rotor life?
Apple may make their new ipod battery 50% longer lasting, but if at the same time they make it almost impossible to replace... did they really make it better, or did they just make it sound better?
10-31-06, 10:07 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 1,751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very good post and questions..
The car is so new that nobody really knows but I would like to make some general comments though.
1. Timming chain - Because of the V8 configuration, the chain is really long so it stretches more. Cars today are generally more reliable than before and can easily exceed 200K miles. Eventhough they are self adjust and lasts "lifetime". I would replace the chain and tensioner very 100K if the engine is an inteference engine. At least for my old MB, I did it 3 times and it was quicker and easier than replacing the timming belt on my honda and toyota. If the LS engine is non-interference then I would not worry about replacing it since the chain will hardly ever break.. it only stretches and jumps gears...for interference engines.. it goes KABOOM..
2. Lifetime Transmission fluid.
I would change it at 100K interval also.. You should see the lifetime fluid at 100K... it is NASTY stuff..
3. Any parts that are attached to the engine like alternator or AC comp would not be too hard to replaced... except the starter on the older LS....
4. the rest of the stuff like coolant, plugs and etc, i woud follow the recommended service interval
Yes,, i agree with the rest... you worry too much...
The car is so new that nobody really knows but I would like to make some general comments though.
1. Timming chain - Because of the V8 configuration, the chain is really long so it stretches more. Cars today are generally more reliable than before and can easily exceed 200K miles. Eventhough they are self adjust and lasts "lifetime". I would replace the chain and tensioner very 100K if the engine is an inteference engine. At least for my old MB, I did it 3 times and it was quicker and easier than replacing the timming belt on my honda and toyota. If the LS engine is non-interference then I would not worry about replacing it since the chain will hardly ever break.. it only stretches and jumps gears...for interference engines.. it goes KABOOM..
2. Lifetime Transmission fluid.
I would change it at 100K interval also.. You should see the lifetime fluid at 100K... it is NASTY stuff..3. Any parts that are attached to the engine like alternator or AC comp would not be too hard to replaced... except the starter on the older LS....
4. the rest of the stuff like coolant, plugs and etc, i woud follow the recommended service interval
Yes,, i agree with the rest... you worry too much...
Last edited by newr; 11-01-06 at 07:55 AM. Reason: changed to starter
11-01-06, 01:27 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Tranny specs?
I think there is a good possibility that the trans fluid may be lifetime. If you look at the video on the lexus page, it appears the gearbox is a true sequential shifter ala Formula 1. Eight gears then would make sense to keep the shifting smoother. if that is the case, then the fluid wouldn't be under the same stressful conditions like a normal automatic. Also, if you look at the shiftter, it hs a gate for +/- shifts wich means the gearbox could potentially act like a true manual sequentuial. This is WAY cool but I want to see the engineering specs first to see what gives.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
