I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Correction: Car & Driver's asking price is now $12 for 36 months subscription. Is it me, or is it just about appropriate that a roll of toilet paper costs 2X as much as an issue of Car & Driver?

doug_999

Get over it.
It is the #1 Car Magazine out there. You just don't happen to like what they say about the new Lexus cars.

Edit - but don't worry, R&T is doing the same thing. So you can switch to them.

TRDFantasy

I disagree. In my case, I have lost respect for Car & Driver because they contradict themselves in almost all reviews and comparisons. The use somewhat elusive and vague methodology, like "gotta-have-it factor" (what does that even mean exactly anyways, and how can one give an accurate numerical value for it).

And as mentioned, the quality of their editorials has gone down, and indeed it almost sounds like high school or college kids are writing most of these articles.

TRDFantasy

I'm shocked that none of you noticed the gross inaccuracies in this test, and the blatant contradictions within the article, which the writers themselves practically admit to.

First off, they list the LS460L's curb weight at 4700lbs. Does nobody else find this just a bit odd? Lexus officially lists the 460L curb weight at 4332lbs. All the cars on the list, if compared to officially listed curb weights, match up except the LS and S Class. The S550 official curb weight lists as 4465lbs. There were a ton of options added to the S Class, but even then it's listed curb weight seems a bit high. All the active systems of course counteract that weight.

With the LS though, C & D's figures are off by almost 400lbs. There is no way all the options add 400lbs of extra weight.

Consider that they tested a pre-production LS, when ALL the other cars were production. Could C & D not have waited to get a production unit? In fact, it would seem very foolish for Toyota to provide Car and Driver with a prototype vehicle for a comparison against production vehicles. Was this even a proper "test" of the new LS?

Even in this preview http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...ecs-page2.html, C & D lists the curb weight at 4500 - 4600lbs. This is also inaccurate, but not as bad as 4700lbs.

Keep in mind the LS makes extensive use of aluminum throughout to cut down on weight. There is absolutely no way the LS weighs 4700lbs, keeping that in mind, and also the fact that it's the shortest car length-wise in the comparison.

Also, in that link I posted of the preview C & D did, their much-debated "test results" from the Austrian press preview, while driving a prototype end up as 0 - 60 in 6.1s, and the 1/4 mile in 14.5s. Also, braking 70 - 0 is 209 ft.

Now let's compare these results to this comparo. In this comparo, the LS results are 0 - 60 in 6.2s, 1/4 mile in 14.6s, and braking distance of 207 ft. Wow, these are almost identical to the "results" from their preview, where they didn't even do a proper test.

I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but it looks like C & D merely took their "results" from that Austrian test event and used them for this comparo. In both that preview and this comparison, they tested pre-production LS models.

And this article is written for the January 2007 issue of C & D. Production LS460Ls were already on North American soil in late September.

I think C & D have really pushed it with this article. It has nothing to do with their opinions anymore, but all the questions about their results and listed curb weight for the LS460L.

Further, Lexus has been basically universally praised for offering a VSC/VDIM off switch. I mean how could you criticize such a feature? And yet C &D was quite neutral about it, not even mentioning that sliding around and doing burnouts in an LS would be fun.

I will leave you with some things to ponder:

C & D at the end of the comparo says "But C/D priorities invariably center on the driver ...". Now read the first three paragraphs of this comparo, and the emphasis on luxury and the back seat area. Looks like they completely forgot about that in their priorities when rating these cars.

newr

common... we are splitting hair here and stop the whining. The fact is these comparos mean $#!t... It is not going to change anything but the bragging rights. People who like Lexus are going to continuing buying Lexus.. and the same go for other brands..

Had the LS gotten the #1 spot,, I wonder what the topic would be..

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that's pretty much how i feel, gene..... that's why i haven't even commented once about the review here.... to me it's pointless.... why would i care about their comments against what i like and want? to me that's nothing different from someone on the street looking at my modded gs400 and say it's POS and looks aweful.

Helmar

The reason, of course, is that many are far less secure in their choices and need the validation of others, especially "Authorities" such as magazines, to confirm and validate their choice.

I'd guess that there's a tiny bit of this in most of us (including me), which is one reason we enjoy positive reviews.

For the most part, though, I've gotten well past that, and know what I'M looking for (which is not race track handling at the expense of ride and quiet) in a car.

HBH

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

There's nothing to get over. As I said in my earlier posts, I have lost interest in C&D's opinions simply because of the shift in the basic formula of what and how they report. It's not about the LS460 review -- I don't particularly care what they say about the LS460 as I have driven it for myself and decided that I'm not that blown away by it. What DOES apply with regard to the LS460 review is how it seems to be full of contradictions and in the end doesn't really give you much information about the cars -- at least nothing that one would be inclined to trust in light of the obvious faults that others have pointed out here -- and that ties back to why I think C&D sucks nowadays.

Also, just because C&D is "the #1 Car Magazine out there" absolutely does not mean crap to me. McDonalds might be the #1 restaurant and Wal*Mart may be the #1 retailer, but that doesn't mean that they are where I want to eat and buy all my stuff. That being said, C&D, like General Motors, is #1 due to what they've done in the past, NOT what they are doing in 2005/2006. The toilet paper prices on their subscriptions may be an indication that the recent changes aren't going over too well (or it may indicate that alternative sources such as internet and TV shows are cutting into their circulation).

STIG

I would have chosen, 1 # S550 with AMG kit, 2 BMW 750Li 3 LS 460 4 Audi A8L and who cares about jag.

Oh yeah and I hate C and D. They are a bunch of morons want sportiness in all the cars and even in their lawn mowers.

STIG

C and D is #1 because they like BMW?


there are tons of better magazines better than C n D out there. For example, CARS.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh don't get me wrong. i can tell you that the me couple years ago, i would be the same too. get all upset about negative reviews and try to "defend" my car. now i just feel it's kind of pointless. like i said it's just like me modding my car. it's for myself to enjoy it, not people on the road. why would i care what they think?

and of course, my bottom line? i would, and have, picked the ls460l (ls600hl for that matter) over any of the other competitors

Gojirra99

My co-favorite among the cars compared in the article are the LS460 & the A8. I would pick the S8 over the LS460 or even the 600hL if I can trust their reliability over the long term. But since I can't, thus the LS it is

doug_999

and this is a bad thing????

ghmundt

As a guy who recently sold my 460 to a guy who exported it to Russia (seriously), I think the Car and Driver article pretty well sums up my feelings of my month in the 460. It is a great car for the passengers, but a lousy car for a driving enthusiast. The suspension needs some dramatic reworking even to get it to the level of enjoyment I still get out of my 2002 LS430. I sincerely hope that the Lexus engineers hear this because it is so close to a great car, that I want them to get it right so I can buy another one when they have sorted the suspension. There is nothing else out there that can touch the LS460 if that is made right.

XeroK00L

The level of enjoyment you get out of your 2002 LS430? When you posted in another thread saying you are disappointed in LS460's driving dynamics, I thought "oh ok he must be comparing the LS460 to cars of some German brands". But turns out you came from an LS430? You can't be serious. Personally I think the LS460 improves upon the LS430 in nearly every way except for quietness and trunk size. If you prefer "the level of enjoyment" you get out of your LS430, you can't possibly be talking about the enjoyment of driving dynamics...right?