Jan Car and Driver. 1. S550 2. A8 3. 750 4. XJ Super 5. LS 460 L
11-25-06, 08:12 PM
#1
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Jan Car and Driver. 1. S550 2. A8 3. 750 4. XJ Super 5. LS 460 L
I'm on vacation but this is just in. Very surprising, as the LAST LS 430 won first barely 2 years ago.
Overall, the article was way to short and not in depth at all (and that is why I don't subsribe to them and pay the extra money for CAr/EVO etc)...we are taking 1/2 a page on each $90,000 car!! How can you write 1/2 a page on such incredible cars and call that a FULL review??? C and D previews and 1/2 takes are longer.
The writing was garbage. I do agree with their assesment that there are really no losers here, all 5 cars are incredible.
Still, the LS was last place.
Overall, the article was way to short and not in depth at all (and that is why I don't subsribe to them and pay the extra money for CAr/EVO etc)...we are taking 1/2 a page on each $90,000 car!! How can you write 1/2 a page on such incredible cars and call that a FULL review??? C and D previews and 1/2 takes are longer.
The writing was garbage. I do agree with their assesment that there are really no losers here, all 5 cars are incredible.
Still, the LS was last place.
11-25-06, 09:59 PM
#2
Very disappointing, but expected given the recent attitudes C&D has displayed towards Lexus, and the way the cars and magazine have interacted.
I'm NOT surprised. I was expecting this might happen. Have you seen their recent comments toward the IS? As well as trashing the GS 450h? Even their backhanded review of the ES? Following the good-but-not-enough Edmunds review, and others...it's been a mixed bag.
It seems to me that in the past, the reviewers treated Lexus as the upstart and gave it favored status as the underdog who leap past the competition.
Now, with Lexus leveling the playing field in price and in its advertising, the reviewers have taken a step back, and have a 'you claim to be #1? We'll see--all bets are off--no more Mr. Nice Guy."
The magazines have shifted focus as well to more performance, enthusiast elements as their readership declined. The new LS probably does not satisfy that regard in their opinion.
We'll see what the other reviewers say, but the most important reviewer is oneself. I for one feel that the LS 460 is at least better, in a general test, than the 7-series and XJ on elements such as comfort, ergonomics, reliability, quality, and design.
I'm NOT surprised. I was expecting this might happen. Have you seen their recent comments toward the IS? As well as trashing the GS 450h? Even their backhanded review of the ES? Following the good-but-not-enough Edmunds review, and others...it's been a mixed bag.
It seems to me that in the past, the reviewers treated Lexus as the upstart and gave it favored status as the underdog who leap past the competition.
Now, with Lexus leveling the playing field in price and in its advertising, the reviewers have taken a step back, and have a 'you claim to be #1? We'll see--all bets are off--no more Mr. Nice Guy."
The magazines have shifted focus as well to more performance, enthusiast elements as their readership declined. The new LS probably does not satisfy that regard in their opinion.
We'll see what the other reviewers say, but the most important reviewer is oneself. I for one feel that the LS 460 is at least better, in a general test, than the 7-series and XJ on elements such as comfort, ergonomics, reliability, quality, and design.
Last edited by encore888; 11-25-06 at 10:07 PM.
11-25-06, 10:56 PM
#5
I would say also that this has the makings of a backlash against Lexus, intentional or otherwise.
It surely takes one aback to see that the LS 460, the 'best Lexus yet,' the crown jewel of the lineup--and yet it gets a lesser review in some quarters as past LS's which were so lovingly received.
But between Edmunds saying "Not yet equal" to S-Class and 7-series, and Dan Neil in the LA Times saying it "misses the mark," it's quite different from:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ans-page7.html
It surely takes one aback to see that the LS 460, the 'best Lexus yet,' the crown jewel of the lineup--and yet it gets a lesser review in some quarters as past LS's which were so lovingly received.
But between Edmunds saying "Not yet equal" to S-Class and 7-series, and Dan Neil in the LA Times saying it "misses the mark," it's quite different from:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ans-page7.html
First Place
Lexus LS430
If you just walked up and asked, we'd say this is not a Car and Driver sort of car. But like gravity, the Lexus kept pulling on us. It's so confident. It does so many things beautifully. It's like the salesman who never quits, and finally, you find yourself agreeing with him.
"Yeah, why didn't I think of that?"
The Lexus ride is unmatched in this group. There's a switch on the dash that lets you make it a little worse if you must. Go ahead, if more sinew in the suspenders makes you think handling is better.
If you really want muscles, opt for the sport suspension with 18-inch summer tires. The 17s on the test car were quick to moan when pushed. Skidpad grip was weakest of all, 0.73 g. But don't confuse that with stumbling behavior. This is an agile dancer wearing slippery shoes.
It's best that you have a light touch on the controls when you hustle. The steering and the brakes are almost delicate in their feel. You must caress them. And when you do, the responses come with precision. Still, this sedan is at its best on the expressway. The steering knows exactly where straight ahead is, and the faster you go, the more it locks onto that heading.
Acceleration is brisk: second best to 60 mph; third in the quarter, at 95 mph, as it showed taillights to three of the four Germans. Yet its fuel economy on our trip tied the Jag's at 21 mpg, topped the Audi's, BMW's, and Benz's by 2 mpg, and bettered the VW's by 4. All that plus the sound of ripping silk when you toe into the power. Oh, yes.
Power, though, is something you take for granted in this class. It's the Lexus interior that keeps amazing. Are pleasure palaces this fine? The Ecru leather is so soft ($1460). The seat is such a perfect shape, and amazingly, it feels that way for every driver. The wood grain is so radiant, so expressive, so intricate and self-illuminating . . . how often must you change the batteries?
Unlike Jaguar, Lexus mounts a full-frontal gizmo attack, particularly with the optional Potentate package ($11,320) that turns the back seat into hedonist heaven. There's a power slider that puts you into recline, heaters and coolers in the cushion, a tingler/tickler somewhere in the backrest to give you that Magic Fingers massage, plus cup holders, window shades, light dimmers, door closers, a refrigerator, your own back-seat air conditioner, and—are you ready?—an "optical deodorizer." We forgot to test it! Well, the back seat is just not our promised land.
But if [Mr.] Grasso is buying, yes, thanks, we'll have one in Cypress Pearl, and have his people call our people as soon as it's ready.
Lexus LS430
If you just walked up and asked, we'd say this is not a Car and Driver sort of car. But like gravity, the Lexus kept pulling on us. It's so confident. It does so many things beautifully. It's like the salesman who never quits, and finally, you find yourself agreeing with him.
"Yeah, why didn't I think of that?"
The Lexus ride is unmatched in this group. There's a switch on the dash that lets you make it a little worse if you must. Go ahead, if more sinew in the suspenders makes you think handling is better.
If you really want muscles, opt for the sport suspension with 18-inch summer tires. The 17s on the test car were quick to moan when pushed. Skidpad grip was weakest of all, 0.73 g. But don't confuse that with stumbling behavior. This is an agile dancer wearing slippery shoes.
It's best that you have a light touch on the controls when you hustle. The steering and the brakes are almost delicate in their feel. You must caress them. And when you do, the responses come with precision. Still, this sedan is at its best on the expressway. The steering knows exactly where straight ahead is, and the faster you go, the more it locks onto that heading.
Acceleration is brisk: second best to 60 mph; third in the quarter, at 95 mph, as it showed taillights to three of the four Germans. Yet its fuel economy on our trip tied the Jag's at 21 mpg, topped the Audi's, BMW's, and Benz's by 2 mpg, and bettered the VW's by 4. All that plus the sound of ripping silk when you toe into the power. Oh, yes.
Power, though, is something you take for granted in this class. It's the Lexus interior that keeps amazing. Are pleasure palaces this fine? The Ecru leather is so soft ($1460). The seat is such a perfect shape, and amazingly, it feels that way for every driver. The wood grain is so radiant, so expressive, so intricate and self-illuminating . . . how often must you change the batteries?
Unlike Jaguar, Lexus mounts a full-frontal gizmo attack, particularly with the optional Potentate package ($11,320) that turns the back seat into hedonist heaven. There's a power slider that puts you into recline, heaters and coolers in the cushion, a tingler/tickler somewhere in the backrest to give you that Magic Fingers massage, plus cup holders, window shades, light dimmers, door closers, a refrigerator, your own back-seat air conditioner, and—are you ready?—an "optical deodorizer." We forgot to test it! Well, the back seat is just not our promised land.
But if [Mr.] Grasso is buying, yes, thanks, we'll have one in Cypress Pearl, and have his people call our people as soon as it's ready.
11-26-06, 01:09 AM
#7
I think the LS460 should have finished first or second. The 750 and XJ don't even compare to any of the other three imo. Strangely for C&D when the third gen came out it finish behind and then came first when it was updated in 04. I believe the same thing happen with the second gen, they compared it and it won the second time when it was updated in 98 I believe it was.
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11-26-06, 07:05 AM
#8
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A brand which never produced anything other than junk throughout their history is being lauded as better than LS. One wonders if their is any journalistic ethics left in this land of the free home of the brave.
The media is probably the most corrupt and manipulated institution in US today.
11-26-06, 07:12 AM
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Although you made a good point, I doubt whether its a backlash or anything like that. Also, LS is no where near europeans in price, but in quality it is the leader as usual.
Also this theory that when LS was underdog, it received media accolades reserved for Mr. Nice guy does not make sense, because LS has long been the sales leader in terms of number of units shipped.
I think what is happening here is pure journalistic corruption and loss in ethics.
I am especially shocked at XJ scoring higher than LS. XJ is not even half of chrysler 300 or dodge avenger. The very fact that it has made the list make me seriously doubt the competence of these so called writers and journalists.
Also this theory that when LS was underdog, it received media accolades reserved for Mr. Nice guy does not make sense, because LS has long been the sales leader in terms of number of units shipped.
I think what is happening here is pure journalistic corruption and loss in ethics.
I am especially shocked at XJ scoring higher than LS. XJ is not even half of chrysler 300 or dodge avenger. The very fact that it has made the list make me seriously doubt the competence of these so called writers and journalists.
11-26-06, 08:32 AM
#10
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From the quoted article above they don't like it that much last time either, they said it's not their kind of car, & it has the lowest skidpad grip of all, but seems like they based the ranking on the overall package last time & rank the LS430 #1, which is a sensible approach for a large luxury sedan, but this time, they probably revert back to what they usually do 90 %+ of the time. Without reading the new comparo, my guess is the LS460 is the least sporty of all the cars (like the LS430 last time), & they rank it last based on that . . .
Last edited by Gojirra99; 11-26-06 at 08:36 AM.
11-26-06, 09:28 AM
#11
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How many people here have actually sit in and drive the XJ, especially the XJR ? It's a blast to drive. The XJR is like a super sport car with four doors, and it's handling is even better than the 750; and it's interior is just gorgeous.
I know Jag still have a lot to go to meet Lexus quality, but have anyone track JDPower lately ? , last I remmember, Jag is right up there in the top ten, and is the manufacture with the most improvement. Since lot of people rely on the JDPower to trash Benz & Bimmer for low quality, we can't have double standard here.
I know Jag still have a lot to go to meet Lexus quality, but have anyone track JDPower lately ? , last I remmember, Jag is right up there in the top ten, and is the manufacture with the most improvement. Since lot of people rely on the JDPower to trash Benz & Bimmer for low quality, we can't have double standard here.
11-26-06, 10:26 AM
#12
It's not hard to improve quality and reliability when you've had ONE new car in the last eight years, that doesn't contain any sort of advanced technology or electronics, and has an ancient engine.
The new XK hasn't been included in any of these ratings though, but I'm really wanting to see how the new S type fares, if it even comes out before they go bankrupt.
The new XK hasn't been included in any of these ratings though, but I'm really wanting to see how the new S type fares, if it even comes out before they go bankrupt.
11-26-06, 11:10 AM
#13
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How many people here have actually sit in and drive the XJ, especially the XJR ? It's a blast to drive. The XJR is like a super sport car with four doors, and it's handling is even better than the 750; and it's interior is just gorgeous.
I know Jag still have a lot to go to meet Lexus quality, but have anyone track JDPower lately ? , last I remmember, Jag is right up there in the top ten, and is the manufacture with the most improvement. Since lot of people rely on the JDPower to trash Benz & Bimmer for low quality, we can't have double standard here.
I know Jag still have a lot to go to meet Lexus quality, but have anyone track JDPower lately ? , last I remmember, Jag is right up there in the top ten, and is the manufacture with the most improvement. Since lot of people rely on the JDPower to trash Benz & Bimmer for low quality, we can't have double standard here.
11-26-06, 12:12 PM
#14
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I have a subscription for Car and Driver, I find it to be the worst magazine out of all the magazines. Most of the stuff in magazine is crap and I will not renew the subscription once in expires.
As for the LS460 placing last, does not make much sense since the last LS was first and all the cars were pretty much the same.
As for the LS460 placing last, does not make much sense since the last LS was first and all the cars were pretty much the same.
11-26-06, 05:55 PM
#15
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Maybe C&D likes the XJ's much greater amount of wood inside vs. the pretty spartan and 'plasticky' LS.
Maybe C&D likes the iPod integration.
Maybe C&D likes the XJ's all aluminum body (500lbs less than LS).
Maybe C&D likes the available dual rear headrest mounted displays.
Maybe C&D likes the power adjustable pedals - great for shorter drivers.
The LS is a wonderful vehicle, but offers none of these things. Of course it has its own unique features, but to say the XJ is 'the biggest garbage' is 'lacking in research' shall we say.
Here - check for yourself:
http://www.jaguarusa.com/us/en/xj/hi...ts/comfort.htm
Last edited by bitkahuna; 11-26-06 at 06:03 PM.