LexusLean

I just purchased a 2007 LS 460, and of course, am completely immersed with fascination and awe with its refinement and techincal superiority over most every other car in its class.

I am dissappointed with the Nav/Phone/Audio motion lockouts, however.

I'm wondering if any other new owners would like to band together to compel Toyota/Lexus to provide an "upgrade" of some nature that would enable owners of what by any measure would and could be described as an upscale and expensive luxury mark of a vehicle, to disable the motion lockout so we could truly exploit the capabilities built in to the system.

We could do this any number of ways...making sure it's "nit #1" in all of the customer surveys we're bound to receive in the coming weeks and months...mass timed call-ins to Lexus Customer Service...a barrage of e-mails to the Lexus Corporate web-site, etc.

I knew this going into my purchase, but I've always felt that eventually there would be a disabling option for the lockout, as I've read about with other 5th generation Navi equipped Toyota/Lexus vehicles, but alas, so far no go with our LS 460's.

I mean, if we signed a comprehensive release of liability letter that Toyota/Lexus lawyers could draw up...wouldn't that...in conjunction with the lawyer screen we already have to acknowledge prior to utilization of the system...be enough to enable a lockout disabling software upgrade?

I believe the only way for a lockout disabling upgrade to the Navi/Audio/Phone system on board will be for we, as owners, to band together to compel Toyota/Lexus to do so in the interest of customer satisfaction and those precious J. D. Power rankings.

I think if enough of us articulate to Toyota/Lexus that we're extremely dissappointed with the lockout, to the point of where it will influence, in a negative way, our overall impressions of the vehicle, and indeed, the Lexus mark itself...this might be just enough for their corporate culture to acquiesce, and provide us with the magic key to automotive bliss...a fully functional 2007 Lexus LS 460 and its more than capable 5th generation Navi/Audio/Phone stack, unencumbered by a motion disabler.

Any thoughts, or plan of action from my fellow owners?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Barrynsh

Of course, if nothing is done, nothing will happen. But in reading the proposed plan, I'm not sure I see enough in it that would be compelling to Lexus to acquiesce. What are they going to get out of it? Do you think that people will be deterred from buying the car because of the lockout? Cadillac STS also has an unbreakable lockout (so far since 2005 edition). In fact, as always there is an unforseen possibility that Toyota/Lexus may welcome this compaign as a form of free advertising.

I think that we must consider that the Navigation system will and has been serviced in the past and some of that diagnosing of the system will have to be done while the car is on the roll. If that is true, which is a reasonable supposition, there then has to be a way to disable the lockout. Some technician, somewhere is going to pass on the information. Meanwhile, I think the best hope is the recently found key which accesses the computer diagnosis area of the car. (see another recent thread, the title of which escapes me). I can only guess that somewhere in those several pages of menus is the way to block the lockout, even if it would only be temporary.

By the way, going back to the original proposal, I think that the passenger seat detector could or should be part or the bargain so that the NAV lockout would only occur when a passenger was in the car.

encore888

Since all Lexus vehicles have front passenger seatbelt sensors, why not tie that into the NAVI...so that if a passenger is there, the lockout can be disabled.

Somebody should find the override...hopefully soon!

Until then--enjoy your LS!

jeffofla

For the navigation hack to be able to input address while in motion, try this:

1. Go to Menu Button
2. Press Volume on Screen
3. Then touch the upper left corner, the lower left corner, upper left corner, lower left corner. A new screen pops up.
4. Press Override button for 3 seconds until it beeps. The button will be highlighted.
5. Click back to exit menu

dfiorito

Anything yet on the DVD? I would like video while driving.

nhey

This doesn't work on the new models as has been reported ad nauseum on this site.

hendjaz

That only works on the version 5.1 dvd and not the current v.6.1 that comes in most of the recent 07 models.

As noted, another thread indicates how to get into the menus in the new LS but so far no override (maybe called something different an less obvious?) button found.

Probably the only thing that would get Lexus' attention on this would be if more customers stopped buying their vehicles due to this issue, which is not likely to happen. If one wants a truly great and fully functional Nav system, head over to Acura. However, knowing this I still bought the LS.

sdbrandon

I understand the Nav is is locked out, but what do you mean by the Phone/Audio? What exactly is limited?

LexusLean

Yes. For example, you can't use the dial pad on the phone function when the car is in motion, and, while that lockout is somewhat marginalized by the fact that you can have up to six pre-programmed "speed dial" settings available, the real consternation comes with the audio function lockouts.

When the car is in motion, you can't access the individual track listings for your DVD/CD/HDD songs you have in the system.

For example, if you access the folders and file listings while you're not moving, you have the ability to scroll and select in a non-linear way via the touch screen any track you have stored on the HDD or CD you have in the system.

However, if you start moving...everything is "blacked out", and your ability to select individual tracks has been prohibited by the Lexus Lawyer Team.

So, there you have it. I'm hoping that eventually some innovative technical person comes up with the magic hack to override this over-engineered limitation on a car that frankly, has no limits in comfort, quality, technology and power.

Barrynsh

It is reasonable to think that at some time Lexus has to check out the Navigation/display screen while the car is on the roll. And therefore, there has to be an override.

But I wonder, in the end, who is going to post that information and make themselves vulernable to a law suit for indirectly causing someone's death. What if you were an innocent 3rd party in another car that was hit by a Lexus in which the driver had access to the navigation screen or DVD's, etc. I think that in the process of finding fault the lawyer would include Lexus, the Driver, and anybody who divulged the secret.

By the way, as you know, the Lexus has a recorder which records everything at the time of the accident. I suspect that if there was a wrongful death and the recorder showed that the navigation system was bypassed, Lexus would use that in their defense leaving the driver and anybody who divulged the secret as the fall guys.

What is even harder to understand is why at the same time that we all pay a lot of money for insurance to protect us in case of an accident to ourselves, our car or others, that we would at the same time do a procedure that would essentially in effect eliminate insurance company liability or decrease the coverage we are paying for because you can be sure the insurance company would also use the NAV system override as a defense for not making payments. They already do it when the recorder shows seat belts were not being worn.

I also have been looking for the override.......but I think I would have doubts in using it or divulging the secret on a public forum.

What we need to do is get Lexus to allow the override when there is a passenger sitting in the passenger seat.. and possibly only when the navigation screen is turned away from the driver so that it is not visible to the driver when the car is in motion. Actually in some (???or all) states, that is the law. No TV screen can be in operation and visible to the driver while the car is in motion.

Some consideration has been given to the driver by allowing the Voice Recognition System to do many of the things while we are driving that are locked otherwise when the car is in motion.

LexusLean

While driving while distracted could be the basis for exculpation in the event of a lawsuit directed at Toyota/Lexus in the event of an accident, it appears to me that the degree and/or nature of the distraction is at the crux of the issue here.

For example, the Acura RL system allows for unfettered access while driving to all navigation/HVAC/Audio functions while in motion. It's a curiosity to me personally why their legal team finds this an acceptable design protocol, while Lexus/Toyota demurs.

A savvy lawyer could argue that the simple act of selecting a different radio station on the touch screen while driving in the Lexus was a negligent act if it could be proved that indeed a driver was doing this at the moment of impact.

That same barrister could also argue that the mere act of talking on the hands-free system while driving was enough of a deleterious influence on a driver's responsibilities for attentiveness that was interrupted by the mere act of pressing the "talk" button on the touch-screen.

Ad-infinitum.

Putting on lip-stick. Drinking coffee. Eating a 1/4'er pounder. You name it, a lawyer can use it.

So, the real fascinating element of liability to me, is the degree. Is there a scale? I mean, when you look at the machinations of the Lexus Navigation system, and all of the functions that are NOT locked out while driving, it would appear that the "in for a penny, in for a pound" metaphor might be applicable, similar to the protocol applied by Acura/Honda.

Obviously, all car manufacturer "cultures" are somewhat different, and I willingly made the decision to buy the LS 460 predicated on that knowledge, and the limitations of the Lexus lockouts.

It would just seem painfully apparent to me...maybe not to an aggrieved relative of someone subjected to a Lexus involved mishap...that a liability waiver signed, and an acknowledgement of the inherent risks involved in not only using a touch-screen interface for ANY action while driving, let alone some of the locked-out features, would suffice as an indemnifier for the automobile manufacturer. But...maybe not.

My point is, of course, if negligence can be proven for any act that distracts a driver, it will be brought forward in a court of law. It seems an attenuation of features available motionless on the Lexus Nav system, while still allowing so very many while driving, seems somewhat arbitrary and subjective.

I'm sure the Lexus lawyers have vetted it thoroughly however.

encore888

^^^
IMO if Lexus can get the Advanced Parking Guidance System approved by lawyers, then they should be able to get some types of NAVI system functionality.

But in our LS 430 we've gotten used to it, and frankly just focus on the driving.

Barrynsh

I certainly concur with everything you said. Of particular interest is the 'Arbitrary and Subjective" selection of items which are not blocked. I do believe that some of the Navigation items I would do while driving would take less effort and be less distracting that some of the radio/CD procedures that are available. And this is not to forget that a passenger could safely do it all.

A thought just occured to me that keeping your back seat driver (equates to wife) occupied with the Navigation system and off the panic button may even make the trip safer.