Gojirra99

Many of us here never got that impression from day one, there were a couple of threads discussing about that before. They've announced it will have 430+hp a long time ago, which puts it in line with the 760Li & the Audi A8 W12, but not the twin turbo V12 S600 with 500hp.
But the 760Li & the S600 don't come in AWD, I think the LS600hL would have been faster had it been available with a RWD configuration with lesser weight.

THe S600 starts at $140K BTW, the highest price among all of the above V12's . . .

EKM

Am I crazy or do MOST v12 (S600s and the like go 0-60 in under 5 seconds) (I do agree on the MPG)? Edit- I missed the NA part. But Lexus did make the comparison to V12s, and the competition is basically the S600.

I am hoping they are able to get more realistic times out of the vehicle. If these turn out to be the correct performance numbers this will certainly prove to be a huge flop both in sales and engineering.

A car that gets lower mpg, and slower performance numbers but adds significant complexity cannot make any claims to prestige, refinement or engineering prowess.

In fact I will go as far as to say the LS600h is LESS technologically advanced than a regular LS460. Engineering achievements come when a process or product is made with fewer parts, or is more efficient or is stronger etc. This car fails on all counts (again I am basing these comments on only one test review).

If I told you I could make a hammer that has 10 moving parts and is heavier than a regular hammer and requires you to swing it slightly harder and the nail will not be driven quite as deep but it would only cost 20% more than a standard hammer, would you claim I made an engineering achievement, or a useless item.

If the numbers hold up that the 600 uses more gas and is slower, then the regular LS460l will prove to be technologically superior to the LS600h...

omarg

so they are competing against a 6 year old bmw and a 4 year old audi?
I'm not rich, i just don't get it. Flagships are supposed to be better, not just different. (it seems) Nobody buys 760's or a8 w12's anyway. I'm in atlanta all the time and i've seen way more 07 s600's. Like at least 5.

I'm not arguing or anything, just givin my 2 cents. Doesn't matter anyway! I'm not their key demographic by a long shot. All I'm sayin is that this car is the car didn't live up to my expectations. When i tested that ls460, i was blown away. Especially at the price. But the ls600hl is only marginally better than the ls460. I guess the ls460 is just that good. how do you improve on perfection?

encore888

You can't improve on perfection...unless it is more perfect than perfect, but that's an oxymoron isn't it?

Stevekil

Great comment! LS 460 is the best attempt so far. LS 600h is a flop, precisely because its so hard to improve upon LS 460 in such a short period of time.

EKM

I won't go as far as to say it is a flop untill we see more tests, I won't base a decision on the first review- That being said it does not look good...

LexFather

1800 are pre-sold, almost the entire production run for this year.

Gojirra99

#1, this is just one test & Edmunds' times are usually slow. Let's wait for more tests from other sources. Plus don't forget the 600hL is burdened by the heavier AWD (which some might prefer for all weather purpose rather than using it in a drag race)

#2 , you are just looking at 0-60 times in comparing LUXURY cars ?
How about all the new technologies/equipment that are getting rave reviews & enable the LS460L (LS600hL has all the same technologies & then some) to win all these awards we've seen ?

Helmar

The 1800 are not so much pre-SOLD as they are pre-SPOKEN FOR with a refundable deposit. Most, if not all can be UN-SPOKEN for. I, for one, am one of the pre-SPOKEN for's and will be watching closely over the next week to see whether it get's converted to a SOLD status or not.

Right now, the AWD is a big plus, but the power and mileage figures are quite disappointing.

If I decide against it, I expect I'll opt for the SWB version.

Perhaps, but if the same source (Edmunds) tests BOTH the LS600hL AND the LS460L, and comes up with virtually the same performance figures, then one can assume that the performance of both cars is the same.

HBH

Gojirra99

Not necessarily at all, maybe tested by different people under different weather/atmospheric conditions even from the same magazine/source.

Car & driver had tested my G35 coupe at 6.1 sec.& 5.5 sec. 0-60mph in 2 different tests, so they can vary by quite a bit even the same mag. published the articles.

Different magazines have tested the 2006 GS430's 0-60mph times varying from 5.7 sec. to 7.2 sec. . . . . .

encore888

Thx for sharing. Yes indeed, Lexus better be sure these preproduction cars perform correctly, and demand corrections if the reviews are in error. There has been discussion here that they are likely comparing 2007 LS 460 L and 2008 LS 600h L fuel economy ratings, which have changed in their EPA testing methodology for 2008. So there is still a bit of confusion that other reviews, reports, etc. will clarify.

Most importantly, you deserve to get the best product for the money. If you are concerned about winter handling and thus need AWD, here's a similar comparison relevant to the LS 460 (although this is LS 460 L writeup):

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...73278666704044

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Being in Maine and wanting AWD - why not just get the new LX570? MUCH better in all weather and probably most of the goodies and a LOT more room and cargo space, and probably a lot cheaper too!

Helmar

1. No radar cruise control (a requirement for me), auto-close doors, or other goodies.

2. I really enjoy the quite ride in the LS. The LX570 is undoubtedly not a NOISY beast, but it can't compare to the LS600hL.

3. Being in Maine, the LX570 might make some sense, but I prefer a sedan.I never go off road (or anywhere NEAR off road), so any AWD vehicle should be fine.

4. I doubt my 96 year old MIL could get in or out very well. This is one reason I'm leaving my BMW.

5. Although not a street racer, 0-60 in 9.5 is just too slow for me.....

HBH