The LS460...for posers or for honestly wealthy?
05-22-07, 11:22 PM
#47
Folks come on...
There are good and bad debts. We all know that. Good debts are those who pay themselves overtime through positive cashflow they generate. Bad debts are the ones you pay with your after tax dollars. That's consumer debt.
In my case, I don't pay for my LS-460. Someone else does. Am I wealthy? Maybe, I have more time in my hands than most people. Am I a poser? Far from it, I bought the LS-460 because it's the luxury car that captivated me the most.
There are good and bad debts. We all know that. Good debts are those who pay themselves overtime through positive cashflow they generate. Bad debts are the ones you pay with your after tax dollars. That's consumer debt.
In my case, I don't pay for my LS-460. Someone else does. Am I wealthy? Maybe, I have more time in my hands than most people. Am I a poser? Far from it, I bought the LS-460 because it's the luxury car that captivated me the most.
05-23-07, 12:34 AM
#48
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All kinds of thoughts washing around on this subject...
It's been said that buying a car with cash - then driving it for an eternity - is the best approach (robotically/financially).
Then there are others who take the standpoint that, as long as their capital is being deployed at an after-tax rate at least equal to the financing/lease rate of the vehicle, by all means lever up; everyone is otherwise in the same proverbial depreciation boat.
Tax considerations are an entirely different conversation. That's dependent upon occupation, tax jurisdiction(s), etc.
It's all transcended by the meaning a person attributes to a car, and as mentioned, the proportion of capital a given person will allocate to a car (or collection of cars!) accordingly.
I have an illness for cars; I haven't held on to any one for more than a couple years. As unashamed as I am for it, I am aware that rationally it's absurd. Further, I am no longer a kid and my priorities are changing.
Lexus, to their credit, has cultivated a brand that leads me to believe that they sell a technologically advanced, somewhat prestigious, extremely reliable and durable car - all at a strong value proposition.
Ergo, I will hunker down, buy one, and (try to!) drive it for many years and kilometers to come.
...and if Uranium stocks continue to run, maybe I'll look for a low-mileage Z8 to hide in a garage until 2027.
It's been said that buying a car with cash - then driving it for an eternity - is the best approach (robotically/financially).
Then there are others who take the standpoint that, as long as their capital is being deployed at an after-tax rate at least equal to the financing/lease rate of the vehicle, by all means lever up; everyone is otherwise in the same proverbial depreciation boat.
Tax considerations are an entirely different conversation. That's dependent upon occupation, tax jurisdiction(s), etc.
It's all transcended by the meaning a person attributes to a car, and as mentioned, the proportion of capital a given person will allocate to a car (or collection of cars!) accordingly.
I have an illness for cars; I haven't held on to any one for more than a couple years. As unashamed as I am for it, I am aware that rationally it's absurd. Further, I am no longer a kid and my priorities are changing.
Lexus, to their credit, has cultivated a brand that leads me to believe that they sell a technologically advanced, somewhat prestigious, extremely reliable and durable car - all at a strong value proposition.
Ergo, I will hunker down, buy one, and (try to!) drive it for many years and kilometers to come.
...and if Uranium stocks continue to run, maybe I'll look for a low-mileage Z8 to hide in a garage until 2027.
05-23-07, 03:34 AM
#49
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Thread Starter
This is indeed a good conversation. I usually write a check for my vehicles. That being said, I also have the car-addiction thing to some extent. It's my only vice really as I am a cheapskate in every other area of my life and it's served me well. I am a 47 year old professional with zero debt whatsoever, don't golf/country club, take one middle-class vacation with my family a year and eat out frequently but usually only at cheap restaurants. I do have a huge college bill coming for my daughter (quarter mil just for undergrad), but that's been saved long ago and I could live off my investment income.
All of that said, I REALLY enjoy a new car. I have leased in the past for a number of reasons. My wife currently drives a Mercury Mountaineer (Explorer). I wish I had leased it. Because between high gas prices, the uncertainty of Ford's stability, etc etc it's a depreciation monster. Sometimes it does make sense to finance or lease, mainly for the "put" option of "putting" the vehicle back to the manufacturer after a few years without resale risk. I do agree, however, that GENERALLY paying cash is cheapest way. But I DISAGREE that if you make payments that you must be a poseur. But I DO agree that most who DO make payments ARE poseurs!
All of that said, I REALLY enjoy a new car. I have leased in the past for a number of reasons. My wife currently drives a Mercury Mountaineer (Explorer). I wish I had leased it. Because between high gas prices, the uncertainty of Ford's stability, etc etc it's a depreciation monster. Sometimes it does make sense to finance or lease, mainly for the "put" option of "putting" the vehicle back to the manufacturer after a few years without resale risk. I do agree, however, that GENERALLY paying cash is cheapest way. But I DISAGREE that if you make payments that you must be a poseur. But I DO agree that most who DO make payments ARE poseurs!
05-23-07, 04:22 AM
#50
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Maybe there's a difference between a "poser" and a "striver". A poser buys something he can't afford then flaunts it, looking for fleeting satisfaction in the empty appreciation of others. A striver, on the other hand, may indeed stretch financially to afford finer things, but does so for the value proposition vanlex so wonderfully described.
05-23-07, 04:54 AM
#51
So, what is wealthy?
The original post asked about being wealthy, but I still haven't heard any description of "Wealthy".
To me, to be wealthy would be able to purchase a $5M vacation home for cash. I suppose a net worth of at least $100M.
By those standards, I'm far from "Wealthy", being, perhaps merely "Comfortable".
On the other hand, I'll be paying cash for my LS600hL.
On the other hand, I plan on keeping it for 10 years.
Wait, that's three hands ..... well, that's what my wife said I had before we were married.....
It's been said that the wealthiest man is the one that truly wants nothing more than what he already has. By that definition, who's wealthy? Wouldn't you kind of enjoy that 5 acre beach front home in Hawaii?
HBH
To me, to be wealthy would be able to purchase a $5M vacation home for cash. I suppose a net worth of at least $100M.
By those standards, I'm far from "Wealthy", being, perhaps merely "Comfortable".
On the other hand, I'll be paying cash for my LS600hL.
On the other hand, I plan on keeping it for 10 years.
Wait, that's three hands ..... well, that's what my wife said I had before we were married.....
It's been said that the wealthiest man is the one that truly wants nothing more than what he already has. By that definition, who's wealthy? Wouldn't you kind of enjoy that 5 acre beach front home in Hawaii?
HBH
05-23-07, 05:00 AM
#52
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Maybe there's a difference between a "poser" and a "striver". A poser buys something he can't afford then flaunts it, looking for fleeting satisfaction in the empty appreciation of others. A striver, on the other hand, may indeed stretch financially to afford finer things, but does so for the value proposition vanlex so wonderfully described.
05-23-07, 05:03 AM
#53
Pole Position
Thread Starter
The original post asked about being wealthy, but I still haven't heard any description of "Wealthy".
To me, to be wealthy would be able to purchase a $5M vacation home for cash. I suppose a net worth of at least $100M.
By those standards, I'm far from "Wealthy", being, perhaps merely "Comfortable".
On the other hand, I'll be paying cash for my LS600hL.
On the other hand, I plan on keeping it for 10 years.
Wait, that's three hands ..... well, that's what my wife said I had before we were married.....
It's been said that the wealthiest man is the one that truly wants nothing more than what he already has. By that definition, who's wealthy? Wouldn't you kind of enjoy that 5 acre beach front home in Hawaii?
HBH
To me, to be wealthy would be able to purchase a $5M vacation home for cash. I suppose a net worth of at least $100M.
By those standards, I'm far from "Wealthy", being, perhaps merely "Comfortable".
On the other hand, I'll be paying cash for my LS600hL.
On the other hand, I plan on keeping it for 10 years.
Wait, that's three hands ..... well, that's what my wife said I had before we were married.....
It's been said that the wealthiest man is the one that truly wants nothing more than what he already has. By that definition, who's wealthy? Wouldn't you kind of enjoy that 5 acre beach front home in Hawaii?
HBH
Anyway, $5M is a good parameter for "wealthy"
. (but not SUPERwealthy
)
05-23-07, 10:26 AM
#54
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According the the latest IRS statistics I could find, the top 1% of income earners earn over $1.3M.
Net worth statistics tend to be listed by age, so not sure what you can make of those. For a 40-49yo, it would be $3.7M, but for a 50-59yo it goes up to $8.4M.
This as always is all relative. When you don't worry about money, you're wealthy.
Net worth statistics tend to be listed by age, so not sure what you can make of those. For a 40-49yo, it would be $3.7M, but for a 50-59yo it goes up to $8.4M.
This as always is all relative. When you don't worry about money, you're wealthy.
05-23-07, 12:11 PM
#55
Maybe there's a difference between a "poser" and a "striver". A poser buys something he can't afford then flaunts it, looking for fleeting satisfaction in the empty appreciation of others. A striver, on the other hand, may indeed stretch financially to afford finer things, but does so for the value proposition vanlex so wonderfully described.
A wealthy person, to me, is a successful person who is well educated (knows how to act his/her part) and has the means to build his assets. A wealthy person doesn't need to display his wealth in a way of "look at me, I'm rich!". He/she does it in more subtle ways.
A "rich" person is just someone who happens to have a lot of money (educated or not) and doesn't act like a wealthy person. They tend to flaunt their "wealth" by buying expensive things and show the world that they have money.
I realise they're generalizations but they seem to work for the most part.
05-23-07, 02:35 PM
#56
Pole Position
Thread Starter
According the the latest IRS statistics I could find, the top 1% of income earners earn over $1.3M.
Net worth statistics tend to be listed by age, so not sure what you can make of those. For a 40-49yo, it would be $3.7M, but for a 50-59yo it goes up to $8.4M.
This as always is all relative. When you don't worry about money, you're wealthy.
Net worth statistics tend to be listed by age, so not sure what you can make of those. For a 40-49yo, it would be $3.7M, but for a 50-59yo it goes up to $8.4M.
This as always is all relative. When you don't worry about money, you're wealthy.
But we're off topic...
05-23-07, 03:30 PM
#57
You see a lot of rappers that are very, very rich. They're far from wealthy though.
As I stated before here, for me being wealthy is having time to do whatever you want, without having to worry about bills or worry about managing people.
I'm 40 and I am retired, I don't have to sell my time to someone else in order to be able to pay my bills. For me, that's what wealth means. Free time.
05-23-07, 03:39 PM
#58
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Yeah yeah yeah. I get the internal fulfillment etc etc.
That being said, rappers are RICH and WEALTHY. I admit that I look down on how they got the bucks because it didn't require work and education like I did. But they played the cards they were dealt and if I started where they started I'd probably be rappin' about my Lexus etc etc too and bringin' home the bacon the way I could. Good for them! They're rich. And wealthy. Let's not take that away from them.
That being said, rappers are RICH and WEALTHY. I admit that I look down on how they got the bucks because it didn't require work and education like I did. But they played the cards they were dealt and if I started where they started I'd probably be rappin' about my Lexus etc etc too and bringin' home the bacon the way I could. Good for them! They're rich. And wealthy. Let's not take that away from them.
05-23-07, 04:48 PM
#59
