daryll40

I know this is SLIGHTLY tangential to the LS460 topic, but I am wondering who can really afford these and who is reaching. Or put another way, do people earning a mere $150,000 per year feel comfortable buying a $70,000 car (half a year's income) or are more buyers earning $250,000 and up? I guess net worth also comes into play.

Or put YET ANOTHER WAY...are LS460 drivers "posers" or the "real thing"?

I absolutely am sincere in this thread and do not at all mean to be condescending to anyone. I am sincerely wondering out loud if spending $70,000 on ANY car is prudent and for whom.

Gojirra99

That's not something you can make generalizations about regarding who drive what kind of cars are posers or not, since different people have different priorities, interests, tastes, etc.

Not all wealthy people buy expensive cars to show off their wealth, & there are people who love cars who may tend to spend a higher proportion of their income/wealth on cars than people who are not as crazy about cars. They may spend a modest amount on cars but spend their money elsewhere, like expensive vacations, other hobbies, etc.

I know there are people who can just write a cheque & buy the whole fleet worth of Maybach's that are ever produced & they don't even drive a fancy car at as high a level of a LS. So I don't judge people based on what car they are driving , & I buy a certain car because I like it & is right for me, not to show off. ( I think a person's house is a more accurate indication anyway)

Of course it's not a good idea to spend your last penny on car payments on something beyond what you should be buying in a financially responsible manner, especially a depreciating asset like a car.

Johnny

My definition for "poser" is an individual who buys any car and looks around to see if anyone is watching him use it. Me, I don't really give a rat's a** what anyone else thinks. Unlike the US, in Canada, you are more likely to be frowned upon driving a Lexus, so I keep a low profile, and go about my own business.

I'm retired, but if I had to do a 9-to-5 every day, I probably would not want to be seen going to work in my LS...

We just think differently about these things up here.

Helmar

Differently, as in superior and not as materialistic as folks in the US? I expect that's not true at all.

As for me, I'm retired, and I like the fact that the Lexus is less "ostentatious" than the German equivalents. I'd rather just be ignored as I revel in my LS600hL.

I've always enjoyed cars, and as a software developer, I also enjoy high tech gadgets. The LS600hL certainly seems to combine those two!

As to "Honestly wealthy", define "Wealthy".

HBH

Ay-nako

iTrader: (25)

to be quite honest ive know people who honestly have made over 1/2 a mil a year w/o taxes .. have a huge house but just end up driving camrys and etc.. but on the other hand there are some people now just leasing is250's because they have become so popular.. i mean for 300 a month almost anyone could afford that.. and for 400 a month you can also lease an ES350.. these cars are becoming afordable to a wide rage of people.. and to be quite honest if you can already afford one of these LS's theres no generalization but youve "made it" imo..

encore888

The average LS driver has an income of $175,000 currently:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/09/car...hisSpeed=15000

Johnny

You guys aren't materialistic, Hongkongers are.

No, Americans are just a little more brash than Canadians, and most times a lot more fun...

Couldn't agree with you more - and here I said we think differently.

I could afford the German equivalents, but trust the Lexus brand just a little more.

daryll40

The average income of $175K is what I wanted to know Thanks!

As to being materialistic...I am basically a cheapskate. But I enjoy a nice car. In 1990 I bot my first LS400. In 1992 I started a series of 4 Mercedes. Then in 2002 I had this realization that my prior Lexus experience was by far the best car and car experience I ever had, and now I am approaching my 3rd LS since then.

For me it's not about making a statement. I live in an affluent suburb where high end cars, including the Mercedes S550, are a dime a dozen. (I only live here because the public schools are great and I'm too cheap for the 20 grand per kid per year private school....once junior graduates in 6 years I am back to middle-classville )

I have found the LS to be a "no grief" car that (until now) fit my value profile. At $67000 I am almost being forced (by my sense of value, not by ability to pay) into "lesser, midsized" cars like the GS or the Infiniti M. But I'll probably keep my LS430 for a while longer or actually bite the bullet.

Anyway, it's interesting to know that the average income of an LS owner is 175K

encore888

You're welcome! The first year 1989 LS 400 had buyers with an average of around $160,000/year.

daryll40

Thats fascinating that the price of the car has doubled in 17 years yet the average income has basically stayed the same. I am not sure what to make out of this...perhaps it has something to do with doctors incomes that have pretty much been cut in half, adjusting for inflation (and sometimes even without the inflation adjustment) during that time. Docs are big LS buyers.

This is just a guess on my part.

Nospinzone

I guess net worth also comes into play.

Net worth defintiely comes into play. My earned income over the last five years is 0 (as in zero). My unearned income averages over 7 figures (depending on the stock and commodity markets).

Back in the early 80's we lived in So. Calif. I thought that many people there that I knew overreached to acquire (I can't use the word "own") their cars. All of those people leased their cars because there was no way they could afford to buy them. Rather than do the intelligent thing and buy a low priced Chevy or whatever, they leased a Bimmer. Same payment, but much more expensive since they were never without a car payment. A subject for another discussion, but it is beyond me why any but about 1 or 2% of the population would ever lease a car.

Actually, a $150,000 per year income person could consider this a good buy if he/she intends on retaining the vehicle long enough. My current vehicle is a 1995 Infiniti Q45a that I bought in 1997. The car's MSRP was $59,675. I bought it in mint condition with 30,000 miles for $32,000. I'll have it 10 years in July (which is when my LS 460 is due to arrive). So the car will have cost me $2800 per year (its worth $4000 now, and incredibly I never spent a dime on it beyond normal maintainence).

My expectation is I will have my LS 460 for at least 10 years. I would have bought a used one and saved on some of the depreciation, but these are so new it will take at least another year for some deals to emerge.

IMHO, as long as someone of limited means actually buys the LS 460 (vs. leasing it), they may be overreaching, but they will get good value for their money.

daryll40

That's a great story. You really get your value out of your cars.

Infiniti really missed the boat in the beginning. The styling of the original Q45 just could not compete with Lexus. Recently they've had a number of hits including the M car which I considered (but feel is too "midsized" after being used to a flagship).

I do agree that Lexus can be a great value if you buy used and/or keep a long time. My wife's Explorer is approaching 60K miles/5 years and I can see that it's either going to be accept constant repairs or move on. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT comparing Explorer to Lexus, but am pointing out that we hoped to get 7-8 years out of it but doing so is going to be aggravating (I put a new A/C compressor in last month and now something new is causing the "check engine" light). To boot it's a Ford Explorer (Mercury Mountaineer, to be honest) that's worth bupkis.

Anyway, I'd like to get the new LS but 67 grand for a RWD car is slowing me down. As said, I am cracking, however!

h2o_247

Born in Hong Kong and rised in Burnaby, I found your statement quite offensive. Why do you specify "Hong Kongers" as people who are materialistic?
IMHO, I think the term "Hong Konger" is politically incorrect in the first place. Do you have a definition to the term "Hong Kongers" other than they are from HK?

I look forward to your response.

With best regards,

h2o_247

Johnny

You can't be a Hongkonger, you took offence. You're a Canadian, and your political correctness demonstrates it. I was married into a Chinese family for thirty years, and some of the slurs that circulated around the Mah Jong table would make your ears blush - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Did I mind being the butt end of the Gwailo jokes? Never, I gave as good as I got...

Why do we have tip-toe around everyone's cultural sensitivities? My comment was done with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Having done a tremendous amount of business in Hong Kong, I would have never picked up that line unless I had heard it from many locals who constantly referred to themselves and others that way. It was always so-and-so was that way because he wore a $15K Rolex, or belonged to the Cricket Club, or the HK Jockey Club, or had a 888 license plate, or what have you. After a while I joined along, as it seemed to be a constant measuring stick there, and conversations were spiced with the topic.

Find something else to be sensitive about, like World hunger, or Greenhouse gases.

hendjaz

I read "hongkonger" as intended to reference someone from Hong Kong, such as a New Yorker being someone from New York. It may not be the official reference for someone from that beautiful place but I suspect that was the intent.