syswei

Anyone have any info, please?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

as far as i have read/heard, no info on that yet

GFerg

Probably not anytime soon IMO. Cant have an AWD 460 and the 600 being introduced at the same time.

mistermet

IMHO I don't think the 460 and 600 compete. From what I read, the 600 is going to be in very limited supply and all will be sold immediately. I too am anxiously waiting for an AWD 460. When the 460 was announced as RWD only, I put a deposit on a 600 back in April 2006 in order to get AWD. I was first in line at my dealer. I was surprised when the high price of the 600 was announced this year. A fully loaded 460LS with the exception of the exec seating, etc. is about $86,000. A comparably equipped 600 would be about $111,000. That's a $25,000 difference. In my case I only wanted the 600 over the 460 because of the AWD. Certainly $25,000 is too much for that feature. I had to pass on the 600 when it was offered to me last month.
I have a low mileage 2003 LS and as much as I would like a 460 I just can't justify the over $50,000 net cost after trade-in without the additional feature of AWD.
I just wish Lexus would be more forthcoming about their plans for AWD. I'd be first in line when and if they offer it on the 460. It would seem that the engineering for AWD is already done from the 600 so additional development costs should be minimal.

LexFather

I have not heard anything about a AWD LS 460 yet from sources.

My speculation, it would make sense and probably be offered in the future why?
3GS now has AWD, a first
2IS has AWD, a first
LS 600h L does have AWD. Maybe they keep it on the longwheelbase models only.
The S550 can be had with AWD as the Audi A8 is AWD.

syswei

I have been waiting for years for Lexus to put AWD on the LS. With the previous generation, the Celsior was offered in Asia with AWD. I just can't understand why they haven't brought an AWD LS to the U.S. yet.

I have been waiting so bloody long that MB has been able in the meantime to improve its reliability on the S. If I can't get AWD by yearend 2007 on the LS, I think I'll be deserting Lexus (we are currently a 2-Lexus family, LX and RX) in favor of an S or A8.

Gojirra99

It would be a bonehead move if Lexus thinks that AWD should be one of the features to differentiate between the LS600h & the 460 , it should not be at all.
To many, a hybrid is still a niche car, they won't go for the 600hL just for AWD . . . You can get a decently equipped S550 4matic for $100K. I know the long term reliability of the new S550 is still unproven, but you can get one for less than the $110K+ entry price of the LS600hL & the performance is about the same.

I don't know about the U.S., but the S450 4matic will be available in Canada for 2008 too . . .

Gojirra99

The SWB LS600h available also in Japan/Asia/Europe is AWD too, so I don't think that's a factor ...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i agree, it would be stupid if lexus consider that a thing to differentiate between 600 and 460, plain stupid. but i think lexus wants awd to be exclusive on the 600hl at least for the first year.

imho start 09 maybe we will see awd on the 460

Helmar

I for one and going with the LS600hl instead of the LS460L primarily because of the AWD.

MB 4-matic was considered and rejected for several reasons.

1. Reliability for MB is far less than Lexus for established models. One can extrapolate, then, that reliability for new models will be similar. Beyond this, my personal experience with two LS's has been exemplary (except for one flat tire, hardly the fault of Lexus). Many people have made reliability into a money issue, but to me, it's two fold: a) I don't like visits to the dealer. b) I don't want to be stranded on the road.

2. I use the navigation system a great deal, and the i-Drive/COMAND systems are far inferior to touchscreen in many ways, both in function and general usability. There are simply things you can do with the Lexus/touchscreen system that you can't do without touchscreen.

HBH

syswei

We have some early actual data now...in the 2007 JDP Initial Quality Study, the MB S550 (and Audi A8) actually beat the LS460 in initial quality.

We'll see in time how the cars compare in longer term reliability in the VDS, but it looks like the new generation S is much more reliable that the old.

Gojirra99

If that's indeed the case, I still don't see how that make much sense, there's really nothing special about AWD at all that's enough to make it "exclusive" just for the LS600hL for any length of time. Meanwhile, they are going to turn off & possibly lose some customers who want an AWD LS but not on a hybrid .

Gojirra99

If you look at the criteria they use for the JDP Initial Quality Study, the results don't seem to have really that much to do with reliability, especially with the electronics, even for the short period of time (first 90 days of ownership) this survey is based on : CLICK HERE.

With Mercedes & other German/European brands in general, the biggest concern is how well their electronics hold up in the long term.

encore888

There are a number of board members, whom evidently money is less of an object, who have selected the LS 600h L precisely for its AWD.

syswei

OK, let's ignore the "design" aspects of IQS and go here: http://www.jdpower.com/autos

The 2006 S got only 3 stars out of 5 for "overal quality - mechanical", whereas the 2007 S and 2007 LS both get 5 stars.

The evidence is, thus far, that the new generation S has made some strides in the quality/reliability department. Whether this holds up over the longer haul, we'll see in 3 years with the VDS. But let me tell you, for me personally I might end up taking a 2008 S 4matic with great initial quality and unknown longer term reliability than take a 2008 LS without AWD.