outolunch

I have a upgrade NAV DVD ver 08.0 for ALL generations of Lexus/Toyotas that replaces versions up to and including 07.0. Map date is 4/1/08. You must specify if your car is Gen 2/3, 4 or 5. each generation requires a differant disk. Gen 5 is available with OVERRIDE for speedlockout. All versions available with I AGREE auto removal but not with override. email cruisin@live.com for availability. Price is $69.90 shipped.

Luxofreak

Lexus is dumb. They could simply put an OPTION on the main menu that would say "Unlock Nav during Motion" and then put a big disclaimer to save their a$$es before a final OK button. This way all responsibility for any kind of incident would be totally on the owner/operator of the vehicle.

clemgrad85

Was on a trip this weekend and was reminded how helpful the NAVI override is. I told my wife that I couldn't believe that without the override we would have had to pull over to do the simple act of looking for a restaurant. She commented that she thought that was the best money I could have spent on the car. Crazy!

Mike_TX

I agree it's completely amazing. This is the 21st Century and the Technology Age, and Lexus treats the nav system (and us owners) in a 19th Century manner.

Most people today are comfortable with technology, and we've had enough experience with the internet, cell phone menus, computers, DVR's and video games to not only be able operate these things, but to EXPECT them to work when we need them.

To take the attitude that we're too stupid to use this driving aid while actually driving (horrors! ) is backward and unenlightened. And insulting, to boot.

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clemgrad85

And Mike, the crazy thing was my step-son was following me in his 4-Runner and he had a Garmin System and was, of course, able to do everything while driving. It would have been a bit embarrassing if I had had to rely on him to tell me where the restaurants and Exxon stations were!

Kinchip

After a *lot* of complaining, Lexus finally gave me a reason to hope...



Now, I want to get the same rebate to everyone else that was suckered by Lexus. Visit www.LexusOverride.com and register!

CEOEngr

Can you please share with us "an update" so to speak as to where lexus Coporation stands since they wrote you a check.

WhitBaby

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned the Lexus NAV system is completely useless!! And whenever anyone asks me how I like my new LS460, I tell them so. If you paid for it and still can't use it when you need it...it's useless and you got fleeced!!

I just bought a new Garmin ZUMO 550 GPS (Best Buy has them on sale for $539) which I can also use on my scoot when on longer trips. I can use it anytime I want and can layout routes and waypoints on the PC rather than sit in the garage, with the ignition on, and plod through all the non-intuitive/turnstile menus.

Lexus should get together with Garmin and learn how to do this stuff!!!

Whit

WhitBaby

P.S. An early Garmin screen on the Zumo 550 has this disclaimer:

Luxofreak

^^ This is what I said on my post #91 on this thread.

Lexus gave too much decision power to their attorneys. Attorneys aren't business men.

LS600guy

I read this thread right through a week or 3 ago, so forgive me if I'm rehashing a point or two.

Can't agree with the argument that having to press the "I AGREE" button is going to stuff up anyone's life to any great extent. It's a quick press of the finger that only takes a millisecond. I've got it down to a fine art now

But I emphatically agree with sat-nav systems which insist - however inconvenient - that you do the instructions at rest. Many Western countries have draconian laws about what you can and can't do when you drive. Phoning, texting, shaving, eating food or applying lipstick at the wheel have all resulted in heavy fines in UK, parts of Europe, Australia, and to some extent USA.

Operating a navigation system on the run magnifies your distraction factor by a huge amount. Think about it... you have find a destination by finger and eye, and run through 5 decision making steps to implement it - all while keeping concentration high on the road. Crazy to think that you can do it while driving.

For me, driving is not automatic. Never has been. It requires constant vigilance, and is a highly rated skill that can result in death if you lose concentration for a second or more. And death's permanent. Nothing you can do will reverse the result from your decision to take your eyes off the road at the split second another map-reading loony does the same in the opposite lane.

I really believe we've been lulled in to a false sense of security because we regard the car with all its safety features as a form of mobile cocoon. And if you've been traveling for a few decades without incident, then you become increasingly complacent...until the suicidal driver, or the foreign traveler, or the distracted mom... decides that your day is up.

Map reading is best done on the side of the road, no matter how inconvenient.. unless you're a passenger - that is one point I agree that Lexus has fallen down on.

But of course there's no real way to enforce passenger-only use.

--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)

Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)

Luxofreak

LS600guy, I agree with you to a certain extent. Because we are all used to point fingers at others and not assume responsibility for anything is the reason this country became sue-happy. It's always the other person's fault. It wasn't me, so I will sue you if you don't take the responsibility for my stupidity. That's the problem.

I really miss my days in Germany and Brazil. Those two countries have a lot to teach us here in US. In Germany, most cars don't have cup holders. Driving is an activity, people have fun driving there. Autobahns. Go fast. Pay attention or get hurt.

In Brazil, you're on your own. There is no stupid law suits. You either learn how to drive and acquire fast reaction times, or you will get in an accident - not by the fault of others, but your own. Cars have the right of way there, not pedestrians. Be quick, or be dead. Be awake.

My point is that we all here in US are "forbidden" of doing too many things. By overly protecting us from ourselves, we create a society of idiotic zombies that can't drive. All these rules make the process of going from a-to-b completely boring, so people shave, drink, put lipstick on, slap their kids, text message, eat junk food, etc... all while driving.

No wonder Lexus wants nothing to do with this. I can hear the Lexus lawyers in a meeting talking to each other "those Americans already do too many stupid things behind the wheel besides driving. Using our navigation system won't be another one. We are not going to be part of this."

Have we become a nation of idiotic zombies?

CEOEngr

I ask the same question when I walk thru a plant and watch our so called highly educated and skilled workforce. They can't even get out of their own path (there are a few rare exceptions).

Mike_TX

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I am, too, and I think you're making a grievous error painting everyone with the same brush.

YOU may not be capable of operating a navigation system while the car's wheels are turning, and you may therefore be projecting that inability on others. And if you feel uncomfortable doing it, by all means don't.

But most of us ARE capable of handling the simple tasks involved in using the nav system, and we shouldn't be punished because some people lack that mental ability.

I have personally used navigation systems for about 5 or 6 years, and I've never even come close to being a hazard while doing so. Of course, I use good judgement doing it, and naturally don't try it in heavy traffic, on mountain roads, in inclement weather, etc. It does take a little common sense, just like anything else.

As has been noted here before, there are hundreds of thousands of aftermarket units out there from Garmin, TomTom, Magellan and others, and OEM units from Honda, Acura, BMW, Mercedes, VW and others ... all of which allow full operation while moving. And no one has any evidence those nav systems have played even a marginal role in automobile accidents.

Are there people who would be unsafe using a nav system wile driving? Sure. But these same people are probably also unsafe using their iPod, or their CD player, or smoking cigarettes, or eating a Big Mac, or playing goo-goo with the baby while driving.

So, don't make nav systems the villain. Those of us who use them successfully don't deserve to be punished because others can't. And if you have lived in Europe, you know about oppressive laws "for our own good" ... today someone decides it's unsafe to use our nav systems, tomorrow they decide it's not safe to use a radio. Then, maybe it's unsafe to have a cruise control. Then .... ?

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LS600guy

I've flown helicopters and light aircraft, and have coped quite well with the high cockpit workload which exceeds anything in a car. But I'm still very cautious about operating a nav system on the road.

That's because I believe we vastly overestimate our ability to drive well. In our country - which is one of the last to ban phoning or texting while driving - there have been a continuing spate of accidents directly related to the use of a phone in motion. A nav system is far more complex than a phone, and yet we think that we can use this system - which needs a higher operational skillset - while barreling down the road at 100km/hr?

Mike, you might be lucky that your skills and better judgement have kept you safe till now. But that's you, a skilled driver. I worry more about the less skilled who are all around us, and who lack our sensibility. So when I project my opinion on to others, it's precisely because it's the OTHER person we need to watch for.

The other point you make about using the nav system sensibly is correct... but you possibly neglect different road conditions and driving skill levels in different countries. I've just returned from my annual trip to Britain where I regularly drive about 1000-1500 miles each time. Try setting a sat-nav in 90% of the country's road which are not motorways, and you have serious problems. Every corner (and there are many of them, darn it!) will kill you in a second of inattention. Add to that the fact that there are few places to stop, and it's a disaster in the making.

In the US there are many miles of mind-numbing highway where you can read War & Peace without needing to turn the wheel. Conditions are different everywhere.

Familiarity is another point you brought up. I bought the first Navman system 6 years ago, and have used various models of it, including buying a separate one for my driving when I visit Australia.

I've also used TomTom and tried Garmin. Many of those units I can operate with my eyes closed, but I'm not yet used to the Lexus system. It is not as intuitive as other units, but interestingly sits well below eye level which I think is a big negative design factor. With the other windshield-mounted units, you were looking in the same direction as the road.

The Lexus and other built-in touchscreens requires concentration away from the road view, and I believe is not efficient at all.

--------------------------
2007 LS600hL, 5 seat
2000 LX470 (traded)

Mercedes SL500 AMG (sun)
Mercedes SLK 230 (wife)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (rain & runaround)