Is the LS really no fun?
12-06-07, 03:42 PM
#16
I have a great deal of fun in my LS. Much more so than in a recent BMW 330xi.
I would change a few things for even MORE fun, none of which has even a remote chance of happening:
Change to a manual transmission. I love rowing the gears with a manual and greatly miss it. The CVT is perfect for an automatic transmission, but still .....
Switch from leather seats to cloth seats.
I've never seen the appeal of leather seats.
HBH
I would change a few things for even MORE fun, none of which has even a remote chance of happening:
Change to a manual transmission. I love rowing the gears with a manual and greatly miss it. The CVT is perfect for an automatic transmission, but still .....
Switch from leather seats to cloth seats.
I've never seen the appeal of leather seats.
HBH
12-06-07, 05:14 PM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Maybe you're right and the problem is with the word "fun". When I use it, I mean "enjoyment", and I think many people think of fun like when you're out running the bars with your buds or when you're skydiving or skiing or something.
I think of car driving fun in terms of enjoyment and satisfaction, and in that context I can certainly have fun in a 4500-lb. car!
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I think of car driving fun in terms of enjoyment and satisfaction, and in that context I can certainly have fun in a 4500-lb. car!
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12-06-07, 07:59 PM
#18
Fun? I guess that depends on perception. I haven't raced cars since when I was stationed in Japan in my 20's. I am only in my 30's but I have enough sense not race on daily driving. If I were a part of a racing club with a race track, sure I would race it.
Maybe those mag writers race cars daily on any commute. Myself, I find myself rarely going above 90 MPH with all the cops around. If they are complaining about the drive or handling, I have no reason to complain. No ricerburner has even tried to rev his engine at a stop light when I am there. Frankly with the straightforward performance I have rarely pushed, I doubt I would feel shamed even if I chose to race.
That said, I think I should have waited a year for the Nissan Skyline GTR to come. Now that would want me to race it. Really though, who buys a luxury car to race? I bought my LS460 for the luxury, dependability, and price (this will vary depending on income bracket of course).
Sounds like some of these mag writers need to grow up or have immunity against tickets.
Maybe those mag writers race cars daily on any commute. Myself, I find myself rarely going above 90 MPH with all the cops around. If they are complaining about the drive or handling, I have no reason to complain. No ricerburner has even tried to rev his engine at a stop light when I am there. Frankly with the straightforward performance I have rarely pushed, I doubt I would feel shamed even if I chose to race.
That said, I think I should have waited a year for the Nissan Skyline GTR to come. Now that would want me to race it. Really though, who buys a luxury car to race? I bought my LS460 for the luxury, dependability, and price (this will vary depending on income bracket of course).
Sounds like some of these mag writers need to grow up or have immunity against tickets.
12-07-07, 10:00 PM
#21
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I have lots of fun with my LS. This is a big luxury automobile that's designed to arrive at your destination in style. I get into my 350z when I feel the need to go 70 mph around a curve.
12-10-07, 11:32 AM
#22
There are too many people on this board that don't get it.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Last edited by rogersmith; 12-10-07 at 11:36 AM.
12-10-07, 12:15 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
There are too many people on this board that don't get it.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Does a car HAVE to beat you up with a stiff suspension, and/or have a "throaty exhaust note", and/or do .98 on a skidpad, and/or be "tossable", etc., etc., in order to be FUN? I mean, is THAT all there is to fun?
You're right about one thing - those of us in the 50-70 age range like smooth, and it's because we've learned through the years that it's not worth giving up comfort for the bragging rights of performance that most of us never exercise anyway. And if you DO exercise those 9/10ths performance capabilities on the road, I hope I'm not on the same road with you.
I've had street rods and '60's Pontiac GTO's and turbo Supras, a string of BMW 7 and 5-series, an M45 and recently an IS350, so I've had a smattering of experience with cars that go and handle. And during that time I've come to the realization that the sacrifices you make for that performance do little except make your hemorrhoids bigger and add points to your license.
No, I think some people on this board realize there's more to driving fun than smoking tires and 4-wheel drifts on winding mountain roads.
But of course I speak only for myself.
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12-10-07, 01:07 PM
#24
I think we understand that, Rog ... the whole question is this:
Does a car HAVE to beat you up with a stiff suspension, and/or have a "throaty exhaust note", and/or do .98 on a skidpad, and/or be "tossable", etc., etc., in order to be FUN? I mean, is THAT all there is to fun?
You're right about one thing - those of us in the 50-70 age range like smooth, and it's because we've learned through the years that it's not worth giving up comfort for the bragging rights of performance that most of us never exercise anyway. And if you DO exercise those 9/10ths performance capabilities on the road, I hope I'm not on the same road with you.
I've had street rods and '60's Pontiac GTO's and turbo Supras, a string of BMW 7 and 5-series, an M45 and recently an IS350, so I've had a smattering of experience with cars that go and handle. And during that time I've come to the realization that the sacrifices you make for that performance do little except make your hemorrhoids bigger and add points to your license.
No, I think some people on this board realize there's more to driving fun than smoking tires and 4-wheel drifts on winding mountain roads.
But of course I speak only for myself.
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Does a car HAVE to beat you up with a stiff suspension, and/or have a "throaty exhaust note", and/or do .98 on a skidpad, and/or be "tossable", etc., etc., in order to be FUN? I mean, is THAT all there is to fun?
You're right about one thing - those of us in the 50-70 age range like smooth, and it's because we've learned through the years that it's not worth giving up comfort for the bragging rights of performance that most of us never exercise anyway. And if you DO exercise those 9/10ths performance capabilities on the road, I hope I'm not on the same road with you.
I've had street rods and '60's Pontiac GTO's and turbo Supras, a string of BMW 7 and 5-series, an M45 and recently an IS350, so I've had a smattering of experience with cars that go and handle. And during that time I've come to the realization that the sacrifices you make for that performance do little except make your hemorrhoids bigger and add points to your license.
No, I think some people on this board realize there's more to driving fun than smoking tires and 4-wheel drifts on winding mountain roads.
But of course I speak only for myself.
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Could not have said it better myself......except to add that if by 'FUN', you mean performance, then i'd say get a ducati/honda/yamaha >1000cc bikes; then you'd be smokin'
...........otherwise except the car for what it is = an extremely comfortable luxurious ride that's fun to drive......btw, I'm ONLY 34 and i know i'll feel this way when i'm 50-70 as well!....
12-10-07, 02:20 PM
#25
There are too many people on this board that don't get it.
I agree.
I agree.
12-10-07, 04:04 PM
#26
Pole Position
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your range to 50 - 80 .. so that “I” can be included. (77 next mo.)
Maybe I could somewhat summarize our gentle age group’s sensibilities:
“Been there - done that.”
Big Jimm
12-10-07, 04:20 PM
#27
I think we understand that, Rog ... the whole question is this:
Does a car HAVE to beat you up with a stiff suspension, and/or have a "throaty exhaust note", and/or do .98 on a skidpad, and/or be "tossable", etc., etc., in order to be FUN? I mean, is THAT all there is to fun?
You're right about one thing - those of us in the 50-70 age range like smooth, and it's because we've learned through the years that it's not worth giving up comfort for the bragging rights of performance that most of us never exercise anyway. And if you DO exercise those 9/10ths performance capabilities on the road, I hope I'm not on the same road with you.
I've had street rods and '60's Pontiac GTO's and turbo Supras, a string of BMW 7 and 5-series, an M45 and recently an IS350, so I've had a smattering of experience with cars that go and handle. And during that time I've come to the realization that the sacrifices you make for that performance do little except make your hemorrhoids bigger and add points to your license.
No, I think some people on this board realize there's more to driving fun than smoking tires and 4-wheel drifts on winding mountain roads.
But of course I speak only for myself.
.
.
Does a car HAVE to beat you up with a stiff suspension, and/or have a "throaty exhaust note", and/or do .98 on a skidpad, and/or be "tossable", etc., etc., in order to be FUN? I mean, is THAT all there is to fun?
You're right about one thing - those of us in the 50-70 age range like smooth, and it's because we've learned through the years that it's not worth giving up comfort for the bragging rights of performance that most of us never exercise anyway. And if you DO exercise those 9/10ths performance capabilities on the road, I hope I'm not on the same road with you.
I've had street rods and '60's Pontiac GTO's and turbo Supras, a string of BMW 7 and 5-series, an M45 and recently an IS350, so I've had a smattering of experience with cars that go and handle. And during that time I've come to the realization that the sacrifices you make for that performance do little except make your hemorrhoids bigger and add points to your license.
No, I think some people on this board realize there's more to driving fun than smoking tires and 4-wheel drifts on winding mountain roads.
But of course I speak only for myself.
.
.
I'm talking about the kind of performance where the car tracks smoothly around a corner without exhibiting any appreciable body roll. I'm talking about a car that reacts predictably when it hits a bump instead of bouncing around as if it's on a child's bouncy chair. I'm talking about a car that makes the driver feel as if he's in control instead of the other way around.
Lexus designed the LS460 with a stiffened soft ride - the kind of ride you find in an Avalon, or one of today's, big Cadillac sedans. It's smooth all right, but the downside is that it rolls through turns, and bounces unpredictably when it hits something in the road. It does not give the driver confidence that the car is controllable heading down the road at 120 mph unless the car is heading in a straight line.
I personally don't find this kind of car "fun to drive". Sure, it would be nice to drive a 460 to work every day, but it wouldn't make me want to head out for an evening just to drive around. The Audis, AMG Mercedes and BMWs do make me want to drive just for the sake of driving. This is my personal preference, and it doesn't make me better or worse than a Lexus owner.
The LS460 isn't bad. It's just not the world's perfect car in every respect.
It's not designed for a 40 y/o who just sold his start-up company. It's designed for people who want a smooth, deadly quiet (except for the wind noise), isolating car that will not cause any excitement.
12-10-07, 06:12 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
There are too many people on this board that don't get it.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Go down and drive an Audi A8, or an A6 with a 4.2 or an AMG Mercedes. Then drive a stock LS460.
If you like driving a quiet, smooth boat that rolls, wallows and floats like a stiff Cadillac or an Avalon, you'll like the 460. It's designed for 50 - 70 year old retirees who like smooth. Audis, Mercedes and BMWs are designed for people who like nicely handling cars at the expense of a pillowy soft ride.
They're two different car concepts.
Audi's are NOT that much, if any better handling than a Lexus until you get to S/RS cars. The Audis until the new S4/S5 are very very front heavy by design. Also, RWD will be more "fun" than any AWD car. So the LS being RWD, would be more fun to slide around (lol if someone did it) compared to a more controlled AWD car.
Not all German cars are better handling or feel better handling. Now at higher speeds, you can feel how the GErmans are influenced by "autobahn" engineering.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-15-07 at 10:02 AM.
12-10-07, 06:23 PM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I'm talking about the kind of performance where the car tracks smoothly around a corner without exhibiting any appreciable body roll. I'm talking about a car that reacts predictably when it hits a bump instead of bouncing around as if it's on a child's bouncy chair. I'm talking about a car that makes the driver feel as if he's in control instead of the other way around.
Lexus designed the LS460 with a stiffened soft ride - the kind of ride you find in an Avalon, or one of today's, big Cadillac sedans. It's smooth all right, but the downside is that it rolls through turns, and bounces unpredictably when it hits something in the road. It does not give the driver confidence that the car is controllable heading down the road at 120 mph unless the car is heading in a straight line.
Lexus designed the LS460 with a stiffened soft ride - the kind of ride you find in an Avalon, or one of today's, big Cadillac sedans. It's smooth all right, but the downside is that it rolls through turns, and bounces unpredictably when it hits something in the road. It does not give the driver confidence that the car is controllable heading down the road at 120 mph unless the car is heading in a straight line.
If indeed it wallows as badly you say, I may be less interested than I think I am. I agree it's no fun to feel like you're always working to keep a car on the road, so I'll keep my eyes open for that.
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12-10-07, 06:38 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Lexus focus is refinement primarily in SOUND and TOUCH. What they don't get is that HOW it goes down the road over real world curves and imperfections ALSO matters to many people. Body roll is NOT comfortable. Execessive float when going over bumps is NOT luxurious. But Lexus makes the COST trade-offs to keep margins high. They COULD make a car that handles like an S class, but that's not their thing. To most LS customers, it doesn't matter so it's fine. But to those it matters to, feeling like the car is extremely COMPETENT in its RESPONSES, the 7 series and S class are better choices even if they may lack in some other areas. All depends on your priorities.