Went with the S550 over the LS
12-15-07, 09:28 AM
#61
hey guys, everyone just calm down a little bit please, let's not take it to the next level.
everything is cool, it's a combination of personal observations and also information from dealership. let's keep it constructive. v8lvr, no need to call people a liar, it's just what they heard. just post your information and that's good enough.
thanks
everything is cool, it's a combination of personal observations and also information from dealership. let's keep it constructive. v8lvr, no need to call people a liar, it's just what they heard. just post your information and that's good enough.
thanks
12-15-07, 10:01 AM
#62
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hey guys, everyone just calm down a little bit please, let's not take it to the next level.
everything is cool, it's a combination of personal observations and also information from dealership. let's keep it constructive. v8lvr, no need to call people a liar, it's just what they heard. just post your information and that's good enough.
thanks
everything is cool, it's a combination of personal observations and also information from dealership. let's keep it constructive. v8lvr, no need to call people a liar, it's just what they heard. just post your information and that's good enough.
thanks
If anything, the guy at the dealership lied
, thats a good way to sell an 07 if an 08 is on the lot.....
12-15-07, 08:15 PM
#64
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Just a bit more news...
I went to MB dealership today to look at S550 (out of curiosity) and to compare it to my 460L. MB will lock out NAVI just like Lexus starting in 2008. They told me it was a Federal Law. All 2008 year model have this. 2007 do not, but from what I've been told, it's very difficult to get 2007 S550 now. I was also a bit disappointed by the cheap interior of the S550. I think LS460 interior is much better (this is just my opinion) and also room wise S550 is a lot smaller in the rear then my LS 460L. It does have a bigger trunk.
I did not test drive it because I was pressed on time, but I'm sure it would feel butch better then LS based on my previous experience with S430 and S500. Again, these are just my opinions and observations.
I went to MB dealership today to look at S550 (out of curiosity) and to compare it to my 460L. MB will lock out NAVI just like Lexus starting in 2008. They told me it was a Federal Law. All 2008 year model have this. 2007 do not, but from what I've been told, it's very difficult to get 2007 S550 now. I was also a bit disappointed by the cheap interior of the S550. I think LS460 interior is much better (this is just my opinion) and also room wise S550 is a lot smaller in the rear then my LS 460L. It does have a bigger trunk.
I did not test drive it because I was pressed on time, but I'm sure it would feel butch better then LS based on my previous experience with S430 and S500. Again, these are just my opinions and observations.
12-15-07, 09:17 PM
#66
ls460l
Exterior
Length: 202.8 in.
Width: 73.8 in.
Height: 58.1 in.
Wheel Base: 121.7 in.
Ground Clearance: 6.1 in.
Curb Weight: 4332 lbs.
Gross Weight: 5455 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 38 in.
Front Hip Room: 55.4 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 58.5 in.
Rear Head Room: 38 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 56.4 in.
Rear Hip Room: 55.5 in.
Luggage Capacity: 18 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 18 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
s550
Exterior
Length: 205 in.
Width: 73.7 in.
Height: 58 in.
Wheel Base: 124.6 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.8 in.
Curb Weight: 4465 lbs.
Gross Weight: 5655 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 37.8 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 59.1 in.
Rear Head Room: 38.5 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 58.7 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.9 in.
Rear Leg Room: 42.3 in.
Luggage Capacity: 16.3 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 16 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
12-16-07, 09:06 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Actually CR does say if you do your homework
"2.2. How many samples do you have of each model?
While we do not publish information on individual sample sizes for specific models, we require a minimum of around 100 cars to publish reliability information for a model in a given model year. Our sample sizes tend to track quite closely with market sales. Individual sample sizes vary from year to year and range from a hundred to several thousand for the more popular models. A typical model has about 200 to 400 samples for each model year and engine variant."
"2.2. How many samples do you have of each model?
While we do not publish information on individual sample sizes for specific models, we require a minimum of around 100 cars to publish reliability information for a model in a given model year. Our sample sizes tend to track quite closely with market sales. Individual sample sizes vary from year to year and range from a hundred to several thousand for the more popular models. A typical model has about 200 to 400 samples for each model year and engine variant."
So if a 'typical model' has 200-400 samples, how the heck can a vehicle as rare as an S550 or LS have 'a minimum of around 100' which obviously can't possibly be tracking 'market sales'? That makes no sense at all. And why is it 'around' 100?CR are statistical morons.
12-16-07, 09:07 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Because a) they acknowledged the problems, and b) I've read articles stating the last couple of years have been MUCH better.
12-16-07, 09:15 PM
#69
Super Moderator
Last edited by Gojirra99; 12-16-07 at 09:20 PM. Reason: typo
12-16-07, 09:43 PM
#70
Lexus Test Driver
Well, they certainly not only acknowledged the problems but took big steps in attempting to rectify them... a classmate of mine from university was a member of the W221 S-Class quality supervision team, which included a handful of full-time engineers as well as several part-time members (part-time not meaning work time, but how much work time they spent as part of the team). That's a lot of people and labor to devote purely to overseeing quality across the development, design, and manufacturing of the vehicle... so there's no doubt they took it very seriously.
However, it still remains to be seen how this translates into actual long-term quality and reliability. And that's really the most important. For example, I'm glad JD Power ranks Lexus so high in initial quality, but the bottom line is that initial quality really doesn't matter if there are big long term problems (unless you're on a short lease, of course). It'd be great if MB ironed it out in just one generation, but I'm not that optimistic. Maybe my classmate proves me wrong.
However, it still remains to be seen how this translates into actual long-term quality and reliability. And that's really the most important. For example, I'm glad JD Power ranks Lexus so high in initial quality, but the bottom line is that initial quality really doesn't matter if there are big long term problems (unless you're on a short lease, of course
). It'd be great if MB ironed it out in just one generation, but I'm not that optimistic. Maybe my classmate proves me wrong.
12-16-07, 09:45 PM
#71
I've read articles stating the last couple of years have been MUCH better.
If the models over the last couple years have by MB's own admission had problems, how can we believe the writers of articles who say they have been much better?
Who are these writers? Did they drive the cars long term, like the owners who reported to CR? Did they actually buy, or lease, the cars with their own money, like the owners who reported to CR, or did MB provide the vehicles gratis?
Their articles raise more questions than provide answers.
If the models over the last couple years have by MB's own admission had problems, how can we believe the writers of articles who say they have been much better?
Who are these writers? Did they drive the cars long term, like the owners who reported to CR? Did they actually buy, or lease, the cars with their own money, like the owners who reported to CR, or did MB provide the vehicles gratis?
Their articles raise more questions than provide answers.
12-17-07, 04:01 AM
#72
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class of the vehicle, it's just a definition (maybe coz' the ls460 is smaller), look at the following, please show me where it shows the ls460l is "significantly" smaller and "significantly" less passenger room? i see some plus and minus on both, but i don't see how one wins hands down. and to think the two cars (ls460l vs s550) are not in the same class in terms of size, that's way off
In any event, my conclusion of "significantly less passenger room" is from the fueleconomy.gov site. Official EPA numbers. Passenger volume 103 cu ft for LS460L, 109 cu ft for S550.
BTW having seen both trunks, I think Lexus' own trunk spec is a little optomistic; I don't trust it.
12-17-07, 07:07 AM
#73
Super Moderator
Which trunk of the LS460L did you see ? The Exec. Package & those with rear-seat upgrades unquestionably are small at about 12 cu.ft. But those without the rear-seat upgrade looks spacious enough for me & 18 cu.ft seems believable. The S-class trunk is marginally bigger I think, but if you take their rear-seat package option(which does not include as much extra stuff as the LS's), the trunk size shrinks a little too.
12-17-07, 07:13 AM
#74
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Which trunk of the LS460L did you see ? The Exec. Package & those with rear-seat upgrades unquestionably are small at about 12 cu.ft. But those without the rear-seat upgrade looks spacious enough for me & 18 cu.ft seems believable. The S-class trunk is marginally bigger I think, but if you take their rear-seat package option(which does not include as much extra stuff as the LS's), the trunk size shrinks a little too.
12-17-07, 07:43 AM
#75
BTW, I was also a little upset that Lexus did not include AWD for the 2008 model but after driving my car over the weekend, it is head and shoulders better than the LS430 on snowy/icy streets. I was actually contemplating not mounting snow tires but decided to do so anyway for extra safety. In fact, almost everything about the LS460L is vastly improved over the LS430. About the only item that I can think of that I wish the LS460L had is the oscillating AC vents found on the LS430. The LS460L to me is well worth the money. Finally, this is a personal taste as I stated on another thread, but I actually like the looks of the LS exterior and interior design and layout better than the S550.