Is it worth upgrading to a LS460 from a LS430? Opinions?
01-23-08, 09:03 AM
#16
Driver
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: new york
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say that the 460 trans is about as smooth as the 430 if you are just smoothly accelerating from a stop. If you need to accelerate hard after you are already moving, the 430 trans tended to lag then lurch. The 460 trans is much smoother in this situation. Also, as you drive, the computer on the 460 tunes the shifting to your driving style. For example, when I drive round town, I accelerate, then decelerate constantly. Over time, my 460 seems to have adapted to this by staying in a lower gear longer.
01-23-08, 09:06 AM
#17
I upgraded from a 2005 LS430 to a 2007 LS460L with a Cadillac 2005 STS inbetween. My reason for leaving the 430 and going to the Caddy was because of the soft suspension and poor steering control in the Lexus When the 460L came out the hype indicated that much of the steering problems were corrected and I was enticed by the styling and the xtra features. I've been driving the 460L for a little over a year now. Although there have been improvements in the suspension and steering over the 430 the problems have not been resolved. For instance, when you drive on the 8 lane highways in California going to Los Angeles on route 10, as with the 430, you actually have to drive this 460 every second. The steering is electronic and the car seems to drift very slowly (within Lexus parameters, they say) from side to side. The Caddy generally held true and straight without much effort and I was much more rested after a long trip. I recently had the steering checked by the dealer and went out on a road test with the tech. He assures me the car is within specs. To exagerate a little, driving the 430 and the 460 at 70 mph on a narrow road is somewhat like driving a bumper car at the fair in my opinion.
The 460 Radar cruise is much improved over the 430. The Navigator is about the same if not exactly the same but still generally shuts partially down when going over 5 mph. The auto-parking is a joke. Although it does work sometimes, ANYBODY could and should be able to park the car faster and with less trouble than you have with the auto-park. (SEE the UTube video). The 460 has has its share of tech service bulletins including a reprogramming of the transmission and attempted correction of wind noise.
Bottom line. I like the car but don't love it. More importantly, I would know what to get in its place at this time. I think a Lexus person who is used to the Lexus amenities would enjoy the advantages of the upgrade from a 430 to a 460 but if you are daring enough to break away from the brand, there are other cars out there that handle better and some even have most of the electronic gizmos.
When my car runs out of steam, I don't think I would replace it with another Lexus at this time.
The 460 Radar cruise is much improved over the 430. The Navigator is about the same if not exactly the same but still generally shuts partially down when going over 5 mph. The auto-parking is a joke. Although it does work sometimes, ANYBODY could and should be able to park the car faster and with less trouble than you have with the auto-park. (SEE the UTube video). The 460 has has its share of tech service bulletins including a reprogramming of the transmission and attempted correction of wind noise.
Bottom line. I like the car but don't love it. More importantly, I would know what to get in its place at this time. I think a Lexus person who is used to the Lexus amenities would enjoy the advantages of the upgrade from a 430 to a 460 but if you are daring enough to break away from the brand, there are other cars out there that handle better and some even have most of the electronic gizmos.
When my car runs out of steam, I don't think I would replace it with another Lexus at this time.
01-23-08, 10:50 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
My parents drive an '06 LS430 and it is a fine car. But visually, it's not the most exciting car to look at.
IMHO, the LS460 is a much better looking car, inside and out. Definitely a car I would love to own.
IMHO, the LS460 is a much better looking car, inside and out. Definitely a car I would love to own.
01-23-08, 10:44 PM
#19
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like the way you put it, and I agree with your assessment. The 430 was quieter, had a slightly softer ride, and, at least in my case, was better finished. The visibility was better in the 430 as well. However, my 430 had 70,000 miles and the technology was not getting any younger, so after 6 years I uppgraded. I loved the 430, but it was time to let it go. There was no doubt, on the basis of the 430, that I would buy another LS. I like the 460, but will definitely look at other cars when the time comes for my next purchase. That is the difference.
01-23-08, 11:55 PM
#20
You have two LOWEST/CHEAPEST model that lexus offers, how can you even chime in here?
Since you don't like driving models that have been redesigned, is that why you are still proudly rocking in an IS300? As matter of fact, so proud that you had to mention in your sig?
I am sorry if I sounded like an ***, but what you wrote and what you have in your sig doesn't match.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I currently own an LS430 UL, and my gf's dad owns a 07 LS460. After driving his car for a week, I must say they are completely different animals.
Like everyone stated, Engine is louder in LS460 but I personally like it. When just crusing, the noise is just as quite, and only gets louder when you actually get on it. Only thing I hated was the wind noise as well. However, the LS430 with ML sub always blows and makes HORRIBLE sound. I would take wind noise in the 460 over this anyday
I like the new design inside out! but the only thing that holding me back on switching over would be the HUGE price difference you would have to pay(for now).
I would throughly test drive one and make sure you want one, then wait for a year or two so you can purchase them at a much lower price.
JP
01-24-08, 07:03 AM
#21
In my opinion, measuring only by the amount of hours I spend at the dealers for service, it almost a myth that the Lexus is more reliable. I would agree that the service calls are more or less elective as far as how soon they need to be scheduled, so my own personal schedule is not trashed often.
Also may I mention that many of the other brands (my experience with the Caddy) require routine servicing only once per year instead of shelling out 300.00 every 5000 miles.
Look, I do agree that the Lexus is a very good and nice car and frankly, I don't know at this time what I would replace it with (no matter the cost) but I am not basing that only on reliability.
01-24-08, 07:52 AM
#22
I never owned the 430 but I've read tests and the only thing they said negative was the lack of high end interiors, they were not up to BM and MB standards. With that said the 460's wood has been polished for 3 hours instead of a half hour on the 430. I think 460's interior is more elegant than on 430's.
I've slammed Lexus on a lot of points but the LS is a fine car, the power and the ML stereo is simply the best.
Car manufactures tend to run a model for about 9 years. With in the 4-5 year mark they get a face lift and most all bugs are gone. Your 430 is a fine vehicle. Just my opinion, If there is nothing wrong with it wait a few years and get the best 460 made.
I've slammed Lexus on a lot of points but the LS is a fine car, the power and the ML stereo is simply the best.
Car manufactures tend to run a model for about 9 years. With in the 4-5 year mark they get a face lift and most all bugs are gone. Your 430 is a fine vehicle. Just my opinion, If there is nothing wrong with it wait a few years and get the best 460 made.
01-26-08, 11:15 PM
#23
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no matter how you look at it, the LS430 is outdated. the interior, the exterior, the tech both inside and out.
if you have the means, i would totally switch over. in my book, newer is better, and there is always that intangible feeling of "yippee" of having a new car in the driveway.
personally, without looking at the facts about which is quieter etc etc, i dont like driving models that have been redesigned. you only live once so shoot the moon on this
if you have the means, i would totally switch over. in my book, newer is better, and there is always that intangible feeling of "yippee" of having a new car in the driveway.
personally, without looking at the facts about which is quieter etc etc, i dont like driving models that have been redesigned. you only live once so shoot the moon on this
Back to the main topic, I think both the LS430 and the 460 are fantastic car. One is newer & more modern than the other, but not much a break through. If I was about to buy a Lexus sedan, I would pick the 460 over the 430, but I wouldn't sell/trade-up the late model 430 for the 460.
FWIW, the LS430 is a huge jump from the LS400, as is the Mercedes W220 S500 from the W140 S500, or the current BMW 7 from the previous 740 one. It's a revolution in design & engineering that make the new one irresistible. Jump from Mer W220 to W221, or from the LS430 to LS460 is more like evolution, nice, but not instantly void the previous one.
I'm going through the same dilema for my LX470. After checking out the new LX570, I see no rush to update. The new LX really look like a blow up Highlander, nice car, but not in a way for LX470 to rush in.
Last edited by v8lvr; 01-26-08 at 11:25 PM.
01-27-08, 12:53 PM
#24
As far as reliability between the 430 and 460, I think the real issue is that people who bought the 2007 460 were buying version 1.0. There is a saying in the software business, never buy version 1.0, wait until 1.1 comes out with all the bug fixes. The 460 was a new car, with very much newly engineered technology and a new body shape. So there were bugs in the first year (wind noise, transmission roughness etc.) These have largely remedied with the various TSBs over first year. I bought my 460L exec at the very end of the 2007's (Sept 30, 2007 - manufactured in Jluy 2007) and avoided the bugs so far - with 4200 miles. The 430, on the other hand was more evolutionary from the 400 and I don't think suffered from the 1.0 issue. My first Lexus, a 91 LS400, purchased new in fall 1990, was the second year of production and had almost no bugs. I believe that Toyota had produced the Lexus, before the 1990 model year debut in the US, in Japan under a Toyota name. I remember seeing them in the early 90's in Tokyo - started with a "C" but I don't remember was the name was - that would also have given Toyota a chance to get through the 1.0 issue before it was sent over to the US.
01-27-08, 01:34 PM
#25
Well, from my research the original LS 400 was actually designed as a new Lexus model, and when the Japanese Toyota dealerships saw all the effort going into the new and separately branded flagship, they demanded access to the product--hence the LS 400 was rebadged "Celsior" for the JDM. However, the original LS 400 premiered for the first time at NAIAS and went on sale in late 1989, and the Celsior was sold around the same time. The vehicles are largely identical except for the opposite driver's side, and there are indeed many Celsiors still driving the streets of Japan, along with the new LS 460s now.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
01-27-08, 03:15 PM
#26
I owned an '03 LS430 and now own a late production '07. I don't have any of the wind noise problems or any problems so far (crossing fingers- hard to type doing this). Anyway for me, both vehicles are excellent. If you like the new styling and other tech features with added horsepower of the LS460, go for it assuming it would not be a financial problem. If you like your LS430, stay with that. I would be content with my LS430 but the new styling and 8 speed tranny of the LS460 made me switch. If I couldn't afford a swtich up to the LS460, I would be very content staying with a LS430.
PS don't get the Advance Parking feature, it is virtually useless. Why did I get mine with this option? It was on the lot and had the other features I wanted.
PS don't get the Advance Parking feature, it is virtually useless. Why did I get mine with this option? It was on the lot and had the other features I wanted.
01-27-08, 04:10 PM
#27
Well, from my research the original LS 400 was actually designed as a new Lexus model, and when the Japanese Toyota dealerships saw all the effort going into the new and separately branded flagship, they demanded access to the product--hence the LS 400 was rebadged "Celsior" for the JDM. However, the original LS 400 premiered for the first time at NAIAS and went on sale in late 1989, and the Celsior was sold around the same time. The vehicles are largely identical except for the opposite driver's side, and there are indeed many Celsiors still driving the streets of Japan, along with the new LS 460s now.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
01-27-08, 07:54 PM
#28
Well, from my research the original LS 400 was actually designed as a new Lexus model, and when the Japanese Toyota dealerships saw all the effort going into the new and separately branded flagship, they demanded access to the product--hence the LS 400 was rebadged "Celsior" for the JDM. However, the original LS 400 premiered for the first time at NAIAS and went on sale in late 1989, and the Celsior was sold around the same time. The vehicles are largely identical except for the opposite driver's side, and there are indeed many Celsiors still driving the streets of Japan, along with the new LS 460s now.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
Anyhow, first year models of each LS generation have had their share of issues. The original LS 400 was recalled in its first year for brake light wiring and cruise control acceleration problems. More recently, the revised LS 430 was subject to transmission issues in its first year. However, in each case these issues were largely resolved.
Anyhow, it's worth noting that the LS 460 is the most significant revision of the LS since the original. The LS 430 in particular was the ultimate refinement of many of the original LS 400's capabilities; for instance it used the 4.3 engine which was a refined version of that very reliable powerplant used in the original LS. It's probable that the continuous improvement is why the LS 430 holds J.D. Power records for fewest problems ever in a vehicle.
With the all-new transmission, all-new engine, new platform and a host of new technologies, the LS 460 is a definite shift, and represents an engineering challlenge particularly in its first year. If anyone can make it work, Toyota and Lexus can, but it remains true that with most first year models, the earliest adopters run the risk of getting some issues. The refreshed LS 460 two years from now may make some revisions as well, however the later production models likely have benefited from lessons learned in the process.
01-27-08, 09:05 PM
#29
^^^
Very good memory! That's pretty cool, to have been part of the original first gen LS. I still have brochures and have ridden in one, but not driven one. Yes, considering that the first LS literally made the name Lexus stand on its own, the engineering and testing spared no expense. Many of the innovations on that first model were carried over to the second and third generations; the latest also still does have many of these innovations but it is a total redesign.
You are right, people saw that the LS 400 was the real deal, and the first ES 250 was more Camry-like than any ES has been since, and indeed the LS outsold the ES handily in its first generation. One thing that was quite sudden was (although the price advantage was still kept) the LS price went up pretty dramatically in the first few years. Now, with each generation there has been an increase, but it's more subtle from model year to year. I was aware of Bill Gates owning one, and stats showing that first year buyers included a significant portion of executive leadership, interesting that Steve Jobs was another! And of course on these forums recently there was the discovery of Oracle CEO's LSh as well.
Very good memory! That's pretty cool, to have been part of the original first gen LS. I still have brochures and have ridden in one, but not driven one. Yes, considering that the first LS literally made the name Lexus stand on its own, the engineering and testing spared no expense. Many of the innovations on that first model were carried over to the second and third generations; the latest also still does have many of these innovations but it is a total redesign.
You are right, people saw that the LS 400 was the real deal, and the first ES 250 was more Camry-like than any ES has been since, and indeed the LS outsold the ES handily in its first generation. One thing that was quite sudden was (although the price advantage was still kept) the LS price went up pretty dramatically in the first few years. Now, with each generation there has been an increase, but it's more subtle from model year to year. I was aware of Bill Gates owning one, and stats showing that first year buyers included a significant portion of executive leadership, interesting that Steve Jobs was another! And of course on these forums recently there was the discovery of Oracle CEO's LSh as well.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Threxx
LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017)
36
10-30-06 09:46 AM
430, 460, belt, change, difference, lexus, ls, ls430, ls460, opinions, replacement, timing, transmission, worth, youtube
