jmcraney

Alan,

Your ideas are indeed novel and this might be a good time to ask the moderator to help you move your Posts to a new thread. That way your data and thoughts would not be diluted by the information that has already been posted here and you could continue without the comments of others and we could continue without your comments.

awatkins

As promised, I did an experiment to determine what's going on underneath the plastic piece. The following three pictures illustrate 1) how I placed small ***** of modeling clay on the surface where the triangle of tape is asked to adhere. 2) The thickenss of the clay after the part is placed against the door with just enough pressure to hold it against the door, but not enough to compress the window gasket, and 3) with enough pressure to force the entire triangular area against the surface to which it is supposed to bond. You will note that in picture 2 the clay is about 1/32" thick, indicating that in that scenario the tape likely would not have a chance to stick all the way around. To put it another way, the window gasket wants to push the part away by about 1/32".

awatkins

Observe the thickness of the clay after the piece is held against the door without pressuring the windows gasket. Quite a bit thicker than the foam tape that's supposed to bridge that gap (see earlier picture of brand-new piece).

awatkins

Here's what it looks like if you press it hard against the door (no big surprise).

awatkins

The following two pictures are to me much more illlustrative of the problem. The first picture shows the the folded edge and the window glass when the piece is held lightly against the door. Note the width of exposed but uncompressed window gasket.

awatkins

Now I'm applying whatever pressure it takes to make the triangular tape bottom completely against the door. This requires a lot of pressure; nothing I could sustain for more than a fraction of a minute. Furthermore, when I apply that amount of pressure I noticed that not only does the rubber window gasket compress significantly, but the entire door glass is pushed inward by a noticeable amount. Thus, the triangle of adhesive is given a potentially impossible job. As an indicator of the forces involved, notice how the top 3/4" of the triangle is bent outward. That's a stiff piece of plastic being bent.

So what is clear to me from this is that a good fix when attaching a new part is to remove about 1/16" of plastic along the entire vertical length of the folded edge, including the top 3/4" or so where it's relieved to clear the forward run of gasket. Alternatively, if one wanted to correct the problem with the original part in place, you just need to make that material removal in situ. I suspect a carefully applied the dremel rotary saw is the best way to do that. Just wear eye protection and watch your fingers!

awatkins

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure how to take that. I thought with the thread title of "Wind Noise Fix" my technical comments were pretty on-topic. I think the solution to "thought dilution" is the application of a little (or in this case, a lot of) "text deletion".

However, with today's work I'm done with this topic anyway (see previous five pictures).

jmcraney

Alan,

Before you slip away into the "ether" I wish you would answer a couple of questions.

Are you a "Lexus Agent Provocateur?"

Are you a "Karl Rove operative" who has gotten his targets mixed up?

I would also like to point out that my "stickum" solution to the wind noise problem requires the skills of a peanut-butter sandwich maker while yours requires the skills of a hybrid surgeon/master-machinist/aerospace engineer. Anyway - nice pictures - I am glad to see you didn't cut your fingers.

JKarger

Coundn't you just have a thicker gasket which would take up the space? I mean instead of adding that much pressure to seal the glue, just have it thicker so that less pressure had to be added to seal the gasket?

jmcraney

Well, when you think about it, you are making a complex custom gasket with the silicone sealant. The sealant is really not all about holding the trim on, although it has to do that too, it compensates for the complex topography, and the tolerance buildup issues, the air infiltration and the adverse sound transmission characteristics that are under the trim which are the things that make it so hard to get everything just right.

garyr

carwatergu

pretty car...how much price should be?

jmcraney

Here is a review of a 2008 LS460 that was just posted on Yahoo.com. You will note that the reviewer says that he had a wind noise problem that was successfully dealt with by the dealer. It is not really important how it was repaired, but it is noteworthy that a dealer knows how to fix this problem. For those of you in the Nebraska area who still have a "wind noise" problem, it should not be too difficult to figure out which dealer (hint: only two in your state, Omaha and Lincoln) has this skill.

http://autos.yahoo.com/lexus_ls_460-reviews_user/

Quote:
FANTASTIC CAR!
by john from nebraska (9/28/08)
Pros: extreme reliability, very comfortable, gorgeous (unlike german cars), great braking, etc.
Cons: wind noise problem but dealer fixed it
This car is absolutely gorgeous. It's $20,000 cheaper than the MB S Class and much more reliable (German car quality has slipped in recent years, I know first hand). It has fantastic handling and fantastic acceleration. I'm sometimes able to achieve 39 miles per gallon the highway and I usually get 21 in the city. Great gas mileage! Fantastic sound system, great braking, very comfortable to sit in, very quiet and smooth.

The german cars are a far cry from this car. Buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
End Quote

jmcraney

I am not able to advise you about price, however this particular auction ended with no bids. I am not sure if that was a result of the "Wind Noise" disclaimer, but perhaps it was. You might be able to use your knowledge of Lexus wind noise problems in direct negotiations with this seller.

jmcraney

This is a good one. I guess it is better to help the ones with "wind noise" at 90 - mine started at 45 - because they can't put their fingers in their ears, they need both hands on the steering wheel. I would really like to know how Lexus makes the decision on who to help. I don't think anyone had a worse problem than I had and they told me that my car met specifications and they could not offer me any help, while they offered others extended warranties, and complimentary service and buybacks. In case you are wondering if we ever exchanged harsh words, the answer is no. While I continue to be very pleased with my car, after I fixed it , I probably will not consider Lexus the next time I buy a new car, for obvious reasons.

This "buyback" activity is probably much more extensive than we realize because, as you will note in the eBay comment, most states do not require this type of notation in their titles.


This is the 6th "Wind Noise Buyback" I have seen on eBay. This one is a 2007 LS460L VINJTHGL46F475017758. The eBay score now is 2 of the LS460s and 4 of the LS460Ls. When they were trying to help me they said "We want you to drive a LWB model because the Ls don't have that problem." Were they confused? I think so!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...=p4506.c0.m245

For those who don't want to chase the link, here is part of what was said:

Quote:
In a seperate note, I have to admit how impressed I am with this car.The old boxy Lexus sedans were always in the Caddy,Lincoln category. I found the 760LI to be the best driver followed by the S550.Well no more!! This car is almost as fast as the 760 V12 and blows the MB S550 away. With a 0-62 of 5.4 seconds it's as fast as a Porsche 996 C4,M3 convertible,or 650i. Good company indeed. Also the chassis is far better balanced with much less body roll, and cornering only limited by the tire size. the fuel economy is amazing as I was getting 27-28 MPG @ 70 MPH on the road. Thanks to the 8 speed auto and slippery aerodynamics. The electronic sophistication of this car is 2nd to none.PERIOD. This is the only gas direct injected engine on the market except for the 760 V12,and Rolls Phantom. Lexus has definitely raised the bar here. This car was a courtesy buyback through the Lexus informal resolution process.The owner complained of wind noise at 90MPH, Lexus installed new window felt and reacquired the car. You will have all paperwork to this. The warranty (3 years remains in force(as this car was sold almost in the 08 model year) except the sensor gets one add. year) The Florida title will have a buyback(not lemon) noted.As this liberal policy is not used in other states except CA. the title will have no notation in most states. This is a courtesy offered by Lexus to promote good will. All non conformities are fixed ,and the factory warranty is unaffected in ANY way.
End Quote