jmcraney

randomwalk,

My eyes are crossed too! The pictures beginning at Post #405 and ending at Post #418 in this thread are what you need to use for good results.

Check the Private Message feature for a message.

ahalyaa

They test wind noise at 60 mph. My 07 460 had qualified for fix. I have posted the fix in my earlier post. my car was in body shop for 3 days. I do not think they have worked on the fix the forum is taking about. I have compared my lexus with new 09 lexus, fix is similar to 09. I hear no noise with this fix. With labor and material, i assuming fix might have cost close to 5K. They did all they could atleast to contain it.

My suggestion is call the dealer, do it in right way. Personally DIY fix doesn't solve the wind noise that is discussed here

thx

jmcraney

This just posted on Yahoo.com

http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_lexus_ls...2&trimId=26055

QUOTE:
Semi-Disappointed

by Marshall.M
on 09/28/2009
Overall 3 stars
Appearance 5 stars
Comfort 5 stars
Performance 4 stars
Value 4 stars
Reliability 4 stars
Trim Reviewed
460 RWD

Pros: Smooth riding car
Cons: Excessive wind noise; Defective inside trim; Noise eminating from underside while at the halt
Purchased As New

* Had to take car back to dealer for defective seal on drivers side for noise
**Inside door trim on driver and front passenger sides developed bubbles. Dealer personnel allledged that excessive incidents of sealtbelt being caught between door and trim contributed. However that proved not an affirmative defense as passenger in front right seat only about 5% of time as 9 YOA daughter ALWAYS rides in right rear seat and driver only in front.
***Undiagnoised "clunking" noise in breaking/chasis when vehcle at a halt.
****Tires lose pressure even after helium install.
***** Tire pressure gauge good in the instrument panel, but SHOULD INDICATE SPECIFIC TIRE THAT IS LOW, I SUSPECT THAT TECHNOLOGY IS AVAILABLE
END QUOTE

jmcraney

I met with “clelsea196” to look at her car. After doing the thump test, the trim seemed to be firmly attached on both sides, I told her I was not very confident that her wind noise problem could be resolved by doing the DIY fix. The attachment of the trim seemed to be unusually good – better than any I had seen – but there was a gap at the upper rear corner of the trim on the driver’s side. The passenger side was both firmly attached and nicely fit. A gap like the one on the driver’s side trim is not necessarily a reason for concern because what really matters is what is behind the trim.

“chelsea196” asked that I do the DIY repair because she felt that she had exhausted all other options.

A few days later I did the DIY fix on her car in the parking lot where she works. It took about 30 minutes, longer than usual because of the previous repair. Even though her wind noise problem is not completely resolved, I want to share with you what I found while doing the DIY repair.

First of all, I had a very difficult time getting the trim off. It was very firmly attached with some strong, black adhesive. Unfortunately I was so flustered by my effort to get the trim off, I failed to take the pictures that I should have. I do have a couple of images to share with you.

The first image is a shot of the trim on the driver’s side before I took it off. You can see that there is a significant gap at the upper rear corner. Nothing is lost by a lack of an image of the passenger side because its appearance was very good.

An examination of the area under the trim on the driver’s side showed that there was a open path from the gap at the upper rear corner of the trim to the registration holes, and to the hole that is under the lower rear corner of the trim. The large vertical gap was very poorly sealed, with many holes, and the gap under the lower rear corner of the trim was completely open and had a clear path to the outside gap at the upper rear corner of the trim. I am certain that the DIY fix produced a significant improvement on the driver’s side.

I have a very nice image of the area under the trim on the passenger side to share with you. By looking at this image you can see that the registration holes were isolated, but just barely. The long vertical gap was adequately sealed. The large gap under the lower rear corner of the trim was not sealed and there was a clear path for air to enter along the rear edge of the trim, but the snug fit probably mitigated most of the problem on this side. I expect there was a noticeable improvement here after I did the DIY fix but maybe not a large improvement.

I need to give some information about this car. The owner has had this car for only a few weeks. It was purchased as a “Certified –Pre Owned Lexus” from one of the largest and oldest Lexus dealerships in the US. It is a 2007 LS460(swb). The mileage is very low, so it is likely a demo model. The Lamisafe window retrofit has been implemented (the owner told me this was done after she purchased the car). The crosswind-ugly-aXX-irreversible trim things have been added to the corners of the windshield (also recently done – since purchase by the current owner). This car was been returned to the dealership multiple times with a complaint about wind noise around the driver’s side window. Returning the car to the dealer involves an expense to the dealer and Lexus - in material and labor cost, and to new owner - in gasoline and time. The new owner is a single, working mother with little time to go through this sort of hassle.

A very aggressive, although inadequate, repair was made to the trim. I have to use my imagination to tell you what was done in repairing the trim because I was not there. It appears that after sealing the long vertical gap, a fast drying contact adhesive was sprayed on the trim and then the trim was pressed onto the car. They probably chose that material so that they would not have to wait for it to cure. The reason that it will not work is the same reason that the tape used for the original installation didn’t work - the surface misalignment caused by the aft edge of the trim resting on the window gasket. I have explained this many times in this discussion and Alan Watkins told you this too. Remember Alan Watkins?

Because all this wind noise repair effort has occurred in the last few weeks, it gives us some insight as to what Lexus and the dealers are currently doing in response to wind noise complaints.

They are still replacing the front door window glass in the 2007 SWB models with the Lamisfe glass. I would not discourage anyone from getting this done although it clearly has no relationship to the wind noise. You can help yourself understand this by looking at he list of 25 LSs that were bought back for wind noise. There is a mix of 07 and 08 models. And, from FL, there are six 2007 LS460s and six LS460Ls. It is very unlikely that the 07 LS460SWBs bought back before resolution was attempted by replacing the window. But assuming they were I think that an equal number of LWB models, remember that the 07 LWBs came with thick windows, shows clearly that the wind noise and Lamisafe windows are not related. There are numerous reports in the CL forum that changing the windows did not produce a noticeable improvement in the wind noise.

Installing the “crosswind turbulence deflectors” along the sides of the windshield has not produced a single report of improvement in this forum or other forums that I monitor. The strongest argument I can make on that is there are a lot quiet cars, including mine, running around without those things on them.

They apparently understand that there is some improvement to be made in the area of the triangle trim but as yet they don’t know how to do that sort of repair in a manner that has a high probability of success.

For those of you who have had your cars repaired at the dealer and didn’t get complete resolution of your wind noise problem, there may be some improvement by doing a more conservative fix. You need to be cautious trying the DIY fix if your dealer has used the strong adhesive because getting the trim off and cleaning up may be more than a DIY project.

I think it is safe to say that Lexus still does not understand that most of the wind noise problems are related to the triangle trim and that a conservative repair there will yield good results in nearly all cases.

Johnny

This has been said before but, the only thing that changed with the conversion to the Lamisafe front windows was some rogue wind noise where the top of the window meets the seal went away (the temp band-Aid fix at the time was tapping the window switch lightly). Having said that, I think an adjustment to the window travel, instead of replacing the windows could have accomplished the solution just as effectively, which correlates with your assertion JMc.

PatsSoxfan

Jeff,

The above is just another example proving what a wonderful human being you are. If we had some people like you running the government the past 10 years or so, we would have never had this financial collapse and also this would be a much safer and better world.

kmaahs

My local dealer in the Bryn Mawr Area, outslide Philly, replaced my two front side windows. But as far as I can tell, based on the identifiers on those windows, they are identical to the ones that were there before. They are still Temperlites. As I said their identifying logos are explicitly the same as those on the rear windows which weren't replaced.

Anyone have any insights on this issue. Normally, the Lexus dealer I have is very highly regarded.

jmcraney

Are we talking about a 2007 LS460(swb)? And, were your windows replaced as a "wind noise" mitigation effort?

kmaahs

Yes, Jim, my windows were replaced on the basis of wind noise; that is stated on the dealer invoice.

Both windows had a sticker affixed, "Made in Japan; this sticker is to be removed by car owner only," giving the impression that new glass had been installed.

Part # 68102-50190 was used on both sides. They were designated as "Glass Sub-Assy, FR D." And the TSB was NV009-07.

My car is an '08, 460, swb.

Other notations on the invoice were: 5926 NV009 07 1.4 R/R Door Glass L/F R/F.

Cause: side windows noisy. NV7015 Wind Noise Front Window R&R Glass 078 LS460.
Thanks for any wisdom on the issue. I don't think the noise problem has been discernably improved.

jmcraney

As far as I know all of the 2008 LS460 models (both swb and lwb) came with LamiSafe windows in the front doors.

So, the next thing we need to do is check your VIN to be sure your car is a 2008 LS460 US model.

The VIN for a 2007 LS460swb US model will look like: JTHBL46F?7???????

The VIN for a 2008 LS460swb US model will look like: JTHBL46F?8???????

jmcraney

After looking some more I see that some of the 2008 models do get the glass change. The "VIN break" is JTHBL46F985056194 (all 2008 VINs up to this # get the glass replacement).

However the part #s that you quote are different from those in the TSIB NV009-07. The TSIB says the part #s are: 68101–50200 (Glass Sub-assembly, Front Door, RH) and 68102–50200 (Glass Sub-assembly, Front Door, LH).

There is a good picture of the replacement window at: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/4137877-post443.html

My statement that none of the 08 swb models are affected is wrong and I will correct that.

You can look at TSIB NV009-07 at: http://www.lambros.net/LexusTechInfo...L-NV009-07.pdf

I follow the wind noise issue closely. I have not seen a single report of unequivocal wind noise improvement from the glass change - and that has been done to thousands of cars.

The only unequivocal-single-event reports of wind noise improvement have come from the repair (an adequate repair) of the triangle trim and the replacement of the window seal in a few instances. The most reports of success have come from the triangle trim repair. As far as I know you can not get an adequate triangle trim repair at a Lexus dealer.

Johnny

Lexus' posture puzzles but doesn't surprise me at the same time. Large corporations can be wonderful but are also infested with tradition, stubbornness and bureaucratic logjams that prevent solutions from outside the mainstream from gaining acceptance. The engineering or production departments are by all appearances blocking this simple fix. Some crusty old chief engineer probably sees the window fix as the only solution to this problem, and the administration has gone along with it blindly. It's really disappointing to witness this from a company that has spent decades building its sound reputation. The most frustrating part is they are letting this happen to their flagship...

kmaahs

Thanks for the responses guys. Mine is definitely an '08 vin, they did not install lamisafe glass. My vin is prior to the cut off number and that TSIB indicates laminated glass which I didn't get. For all I know they left my glass in place and attached the cute little sticker "Made in Japan" to suggest new glass was installed. It almost looks as if they didn't know that TSIB NV009-07 had been revised.

I will be getting back to my dealer on Monday with a few choice words.

jmcraney

I expect you are frustrated about all this. But I seriously doubt your dealership tried to deceive you. I think you should be charitable to them because they are probably punch-drunk from this wind noise issue and just made an honest mistake of some sort. You will very likely still be faced with the same wind noise issue after you get the LamiSafe glass. Or you may get good results - they sometimes fix the wind noise accidently while they are doing other repairs, by replacing the triangle trim to facilitate the other repair.

kmaahs

Actually I am a Rev. and my "choice words" are pretty tame. I would want the Laminate mostly for the added UVA/B protection which is important to me for dermatological reasons and, of course, there is a little extra protection.
I will be very interested, however, to see what the explanation will be. Jim or Burnaby, can either of you think of any reason why the insertion of thicker laminate is not a good choice, why it would be better to just keep what I have? Thanks in advance, this is probably an over and out, though I will let you know what happens.