Dave600hL

And when choosing a car if I was to base my choice on bad things that have happened at different dealerships, I would be running to work instead of driving.

Although I like the merc I still think that the lexus is the better choice, but that is just my opinion. I say take them both out for a good two hour test drive on the same day and see what you think then.

terrain

325K miles is a nice bench mark to set!

AlexusAnja

Isn't that a little simplistic to think that the MB's problems are because they switch their production from one country to another? If mechanically the plants are exactly the same, then I don't believe that the human variable is enough to create a quality flaw. It's like some blaming Toyota and Honda quality flaws on being built in US now instead of in Japan. Or those that see a "quality difference" on vehicles assembled in Japan as oppsed to US. I think the issue is the manufacturer, not the assemblers have cut back and rounded corners to reduce cost. The reason for moving production is to save cost on labor, but do we really believe that that is the only area they saved cost? Most likely they went to inferior vendors who made less than steller parts, which resulted in the below expectation results.

Anyway, just my thoughts that the blame should be directed more at the company, than the people at the lower level of the ladder.

rogers2

I won’t go into specific but I don't agree with your opinion. Just as most of the people on this board prefer there Lexus to be built in Japan vs. America. I think it makes a huge difference were a car is built.

If you can find a good deal on a S550 I say take it over the LS460 any day. Don’t forget to find one with a sport package.

atw24

It is entirely true what you say. Me being born in Germany I remember the good old days with the w 126 and w 140 s-class, being totally solid and exceeding todays' warranty time minimum twice in offering trouble free motoring. Cheap labour and Chrysler-like focus on capital return destroyed merc to nearly a "lost decade" (1998-2005), the w 220 being the specimen for their corporate failure.


From 2006 on they seem to have gotten back on track, the W 221 being a really nice example. Needless to say I still have some W 220 nightmares named airmatic, comand, et cetera in mind which makes me kinda reluctant to buy a w 221, though i think it excesses the LS 460 L in surface feel - but thats all of it.

As I enjoy being driven rear A/C seats bear a high value for me, to my knowledge in the S 550 those are only offered in combination with premium package 3, I could not find a single S 550 offered on ebay motors with PP 3, though many LS 460 L's with Luxury Package (correct me pls if I'm wrong) = rear A/C seats (why the h*** are the plastic ***** to control this gadget so ugly)

happy new year

Johnny

I wish I could agree with you, but the argument is not mine, rather an in-depth probe by The Economist focusing on labor changes in the automotive industry, and some of the systemic reasons how and why quality has suffered as a result. When the chronology of the report is overlayed on the JD Power customer feedback surveys, it becomes eerily obvious why MB, for instance has had such a customer relations slide. Some have tried to blame to the Daimler-Chrysler connection, but this report was published long before that. The D-C relationship became a convenient scapegoat, imho. Btw, BMW, Audi & VW were also criticized in this report, but Porsche remained unscathed for the most part...

atw24

IMO the really big problems where cooked in the late ninetees, VW/AUDI tried to move up in surface quality but completely missed the point on functionalism and repair friendly cars, BMW had nice design but tried to save money on each replacement line/series (the e38 7 series is an entire catastrophy in the long run reliability term). There are some german car forums full of complains exceeding those on benzworld or bimmerfest for instance.
Can't say anything about Porsche, though I know somebody who was really upset with her 05 Boxster.
Before moving to the north american continent, I never considered asian engineered cars even an option. A really big mistake I need to admit.

Happy new year

PHCMA

"gone are the "daimler-chrysler" days,"

Don't forget the MB transmission that Chrysler used and everyone leaked at the connector.

Thanks MB for bring more German Quality to Chrysler.

dmvp29

My experience certainly supports your assertion that some of the big problems occurred in the late 90s.

I am not sure what the "norm" is with mid-late 90s Mercedes Benz owners, but my experience with my past Mercedes seemed quite extreme by most car standards.

I purchased a '96 new Mercedes for roughly $45,000. I kept the car for 10 years and over the course of 10 years, I ended up paying $25,000 total in repairs and maintenance. $1500 here, $2200 there, usually to fix up the engine somehow when the car simply wouldn't start. I don't find such a figure to be reasonable or acceptable.

Sometime in the future I will look into Mercedes again. I will always have a soft spot for Mercedes I suppose purely for nostalgia's sake, and I would like to return to the brand at least once more - but only when I can be certain that I won't have to spend tens of thousands on repairs/maintenance over a mere 10 years.

That said, I must say I am extremely pleased and impressed with my LS 460. Truthfully, I scoffed at the Lexus brand in years past primarily for aesthetic reasons. I hated the very early LS models. For a brand that purported "luxury," the appearance of the early LS seemed incompatible with this message. It did not look like a luxury brand.

My mind started changing particularly with the new LS of 2001, and increasingly from that point I started to view the Lexus LS in a more positive light.

I think after I satiate my Mercedes appetite in 20 or so years long after my LS is sold and I am ready to sell my Mercedes, there will certainly be a strong case for me to return to the Lexus LS brand. This car has exceeded my expectations.

Although I have always been one to try out as many new things as possible. I've also had a mind to own perhaps a BMW M series car and some form of porsche at least once in my life. Variety is good. My conservative side denies me the pleasure of owning and driving multiple cars at once. I find it to be too much of a waste.

atw24

Good morning,

May I suppose you bought a then new e-class, production code w 210??
To me it's not only the repairs, it's the time and the nerves as problems are likely to occour on holidays or during the shopping trip at the dear wife's bday . You paid about 55 % only in repairs and maintenance for a car you possibly bought having the word longlivety in mind - sounds like you bought some thing called YUGO.




I'm with you on this one. It's only fun if you really need these cars, e.g. a hybrid for the city, an executive car for work and a minivan for the 4 kids. Cars are one of the worst items to collect anyway.

happy new year

terrain

dmpv - M's are great cars - I have done the M3 and M5 over the years and found both cars to be great performance vehicles. I will probably take a look at the new 7 after it gets at least a year - possibly two under its belt.

rueym

lol, no offense but why should it stop?

My family was always a MB owners for 20 years. I experienced they were not "reliable" nor was maintenance cheap. Half of these cars were not during the period of DCX, and they were all new except the CLK320 my brother bought in 98. I analyzed the lifespan of these cars was 3 years average before something major went wrong ($500 maintenance cost aside from wear and tear), but when they go wrong it all starts to fall apart.

2004 I got a new LX470 because MB didn't have GL550 out yet and realized I didn't have to worry about anything except regular maintenance from Lexus which was a great experience. After 2007, three years mark I mentioned after I noticed things start to make or break a car's reliability, I realized the Lexus shift was so good I got a 2008 LS460L thinking that it is worth the whole trouble free experience.

The thing I think that sets Lexus apart is that their service is unsurpassed through the centralized service system. Their TSIB network is much more useful than MB, BMW, Porsche, which I believe conceal defects as much as possible to make it seem like there's no known issues. Lexus is different in that they try to share the same problems everyone encounters and acknowledge them to repair them for customers before it happens. Sure Lexus do have problems but they take care of them for you proactively without a fight. In MB, the weakness is not in the car build but in their service program to make sure their cars are "kept" reliable throughout their lifetime, and to assure customer satisfaction when problems do arise.

Try hopping between dealers for service with other car companies and for them to know your car's history without a phone call to the other dealer. Lexus has every known issue logged in the system and every history with your particular VIN. Others may have this but do not utilize it to improve build qualities for newer models.

I'm just hardlined about this issue because someone told me that my car is "just a Toyota" and to remember that, but I'm into the whole car experience, not just for showing that someone has money to buy a name they're driving. The person who told me this just had his MB in the dealer service center 4 times in the past 3 months for repairs.

rueym

you mean the 722.6 tranny. LOL i have that problem on my ML55

rueym

they are nice for 5 years. see how many people keep their M cars past 5 years.

AKoch

I can only comment that I've owned both a 98' Lexus and 98' Mercedes for about 10 years. My observation, over the years is that the Lexus just worked flawlessly, not a single issue. The Mercedes has been kind of working. Not much to add to it.