Mike_in_DTW

Is it just me or was my 06 LS430 a generally quiter car my 08 LS460L? I traded my 06 in early January for a new 08 LS460L. I love the car, but can't help comparing it to the 06. The first thing I noticed is there is more engine/exhaust sound. Not that it's bad, but it is definitely more prevalent than it was in the 06. I also think the car rides stiffer than the 06, but I assume that's deliberate to give it a more "Germanic" ride. Lastly, while I don't think I have the wind noise problem that I've read so much about, I certainly think there is more turbulence at highway speeds. In fact, I think there's as much if not more wind noise/turbulence than there is in my daughters 08 IS250. Am I being overly critical or have other former LS430 owners made these same observations?

encore888

Yes, there is more engine sound, and that was a deliberate decision on the part of the designers, along with the stiffer ride. It's been noted during the press preview that these changes were made for the 4LS. And yes they do change the character of the Lexus flagship sedan a bit.

RGSW

Totally agree with your comments and observations. I had read earlier that the engine noise was more noticeable in the LS460, so it did not surprise me when I first drove the 2008 LS460. I agree that the ride is not as good (my opinion) in the LS460, especially around town with pot holes and man hole covers in the street. I found a reflection in the rear window that I did not experience in the LS430, so I had the windows tinted and the reflection went away somewhat. I believe this reflection is caused by a new steeper angle to the rear window (?) and the fact that the rear deck under the window is elevated and curved whereas the LS430 was flat. As for wind noise, I also feel that the LS460 is noisier on the road than the LS430. I'm still waiting to see if Lexus will come up with a good fix that will reduce any noise in the LS460. My car does have the laminated glass in the driver and passenger windows and I did drive the car on the freeway and also sat as a passenger as well to see if the wind noise was a problem. I did not detect any objectionable wind noise on the test drive, so I traded the LS430.

astrotoy

Mike, I never had a 430, but had my 400 for 16 years. It bit the dust a year before I bought my 460L, so I didn't have a direct comparison. I think my 400 may have been more quiet, but I was not listening for wind noise, etc. However, I did get a direct comparison with an almost new (2009 model with 1800 miles) ES350 that was my loaner this past Monday and Tuesday when I had my fuel rails replaced on my 460L. What I noticed in the immediate transition between my 460L which is a late 2007 with 18K miles and the ES350, was how much noisier the 350 was, especially hearing other cars and much more high frequency wind noise. If your daughter's IS250 is similar to the ES350 in noise level, then you definitely have something to complain about as far as noise in your 460L. Our other car is a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid (which is about twice as fast as the 460L in rush hour across the SF Bay Bridge - since we get use the car pool lane with one or two people and don't even have to pay the $4 toll) - it is much noisier than the 460L or even the ES350.

What I believe is the main wind noise complaint is in the high frequencies, which I do not hear at all in my 460L (before or after doing Jeff's fix). What I do hear is when the wind is blowing pretty hard (say 20-30 mph like earlier this week) is a buffeting noise as the car is hit by the wind - low frequencies. In the 350 or the Honda, the high frequencies are the annoying sounds. BTW, I also notice the approach of cars passing me much more in the 350; in the 460L of cars sneak up on me, especially to my right, since I don't see them in my rear view mirror and I don't hear them.

pagemaster

Drag coeffient from LS430 to LS460 went from .25 up to .26 so there will be more drag...not sure if one can actually hear it or not

encore888

It depends on whether you have air suspension or not, regarding the drag coefficient...from my understanding it is 0.25 with the air suspension on both LS 430 and 460 L.

Johnny

This is the best and most objective assessment I've read to date.

The engine and tires also contribute some significant noise. This is especially apparent when upgrading from the 460 to the 600. When the engine shuts down, the only noise remaining is tire noise at low speeds. Because the engine restarts above 40 mph, it is more difficult to make an assessment at highway speeds where most of the complaints have surfaced. Nevertheless, the very low revs on the engine assisted by the traction motors and the ECVT definitely contribute to a much quieter drive at high speeds. Add to that lower rolling noises on recently paved surfaces, and I doubt there is a quieter car on the market than the 600 at any speed.

pagemaster

The LS430 with the air suspension was at .25. Both 430/460 are at .26 the LS460 is not as low as .25

encore888

Ah, thx for the clarification. Upon checking the materials from the U.S. site and Europe press preview it says "0.26 for all models" without any mention of the air suspension. I read about a Cd 0.25 in that the infamous LA Times review of the LS 460, which claimed that "The LS achieves an astonishing 0.25 coefficient of drag (with optional air suspension that lowers the car at high speeds)."

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research....=&aff=national

Considering that the author got details about the Lexus brand wrong already...he probably made mistakes on the technical data as well.

Anyhow, back to the comparison, one detail is that the new Lexus models, all of them now have the side view mirror mounted on the door rather than the front window corner a la LS 430. That may have affected the wind flow around there. I haven't had the chance to compare back-to-back but I expect the road noise from the wheel wells to be similar.

Mike_TX

I've noted the same difference between LS460 and ES350 in loaner cars. The ES is considerably noisier, and it kind of puts the quietness of the LS460 in better perspective.

I also didn't have a LS430 - couldn't handle the blocky shape and those funky tail lights - so I can't compare them. And it was so long ago that I owned my two LS400's that I can't compare with those, either. The fact remains, however, that the LS460 was deliberately made more throaty-sounding in the exhaust to give it a more sporting nature and to combat the complaints that it had no soul.

I went ahead and did the famous triangle fix months ago, too, just to see if it did anything, and it didn't reduce the buffeting. I figure that's just a by-product of the styling/design of the car - especially around the A-pillars, roofline and B-pillars. But it's still quieter than 99% of the cars on the road!

Mike

Mike_in_DTW

Thanks to all for your responses and comments. Please understand that I'm not complaining about my LS460L. It's just different than the LS430 and I guess you could say we're still getting to know one another. As for the wind noise, I honestly don't think I have the high frequency problem many others have experienced. I think what I'm hearing is buffeting that is more prevalent than in the LS430. It could also be the power of sugggestion, since I've read so many posts about wind noise. In a previous post, I noted that the windshield on the new car is inset at the bottom of the A pillar. This could be contributing to some of the turbulence around the front door area. I also think the placement of the mirrors can be a factor. My reference to my daughters IS250 was specific to wind noise/turbulence and not in general. There's definately no comparison as far as noise is concerned when it comes to the LS460L and the IS250. I really like the new car, but I also liked it's predecessor, that's why I got another one. While it's every bit as nice or nicer, the differences between the two quickly become apparent if you've owned them both.

usermel

.....Is an example of that group of people who will never like Lexus. The only way that mindset of car buyers will ever like the Lexus brand is if they finally get tired of the problems they have with their European branded cars! I know of a few who just can't see past the prestige of Benz,Jag,Audi and BMW and just won't buy a Lexus. They compliment the obvious but, there argument is the same. They always focus on the looks as the reason they don't like Lexus.

They find it hard to compliment the Lexus and when they do its the obvious things they give respect to! Im done telling the old guard how great Lexus is. They are stuck in there ways of thinking. The whole review I felt the reviewer just didn't like it no matter how great it is. I owned a S-Class and a ML500 Benz truck! Were they great interiors? Yes! Were they great on the road with handling? Yes! Were they eye catchers? Yes! Were they reliable? NO! I have a friend who owned a Bentley and it broke down in a storm and was picked up by a Lexus in the same storm that cause the Bentley to break down. Also, I have friends who own Jags and Audi's and they have reliability issues. That said, its about taste. We like Lexus they dont and they may never like it.

I like those other brands, dont get me wrong. The Benz is a great car to own and drive but, just to many issues with reliability. What he doesnt focus on enough is the J.D Power stats on Lexus the Last 6 years. He mentions it but, kind of skims over it like an after thought as if Lexus is only good for quality! The interior on the Lexus is great! The interior is plush and new and fresh! At the end of the day, Lexus in another 25 years will build more prestige as time goes on. It takes time to build true prestige and the European models have several years ahead of Lexus. Lexus is only 19-20 years old and what the reviewer may have forgot to say is that Lexus is the only new Luxury car brand to make a strong challenge to the old guard(Benz,BMW,Jag,Audi) and thats a feat most can't claim. Give Lexus 25-30 more years and they'll begin to earn prestige! L.G.N.M