The end of my lease
08-12-09, 08:42 AM
#17
Thanks for all the great replies everyone.
Rominl - I think you're right, I like new technology and trading in every 3 years keeps me current on that.
The GS is a great car, but it's just hard to get excited about a GS after driving an LS460L for 3 years. It doesn't really do anything the LS didn't already do. I loved the LS460L, and if I were going to own a car for a long time, this would definitely be a great one to own. It's been outstanding to drive, and bulletproof for reliability.
Owning another LS460 for three more years certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, just a bit boring, and I think I'm feeling the need to try something else. The BMW 5 series looks OK, but end of life for this model, so maybe if there is a great lease deal out there it makes sense, but otherwise probably not. The 2010 E-class looks like the most logical one for me. I don't need an S-class or a 7-series. I'm looking foward to driving something a little smaller and more nimble.
As for buying out the lease, has anyone successfully bought a car at the end of the lease from Lexus for less than the contracted residual value? I tried pretty hard to do that on my last purchase and they said they absolutely refuse to negotiate any discount off the contract residual amount. They just put the cars up for auction and let the dealers big against each other on them. At $47K, it's not so high that it's outrageous, but it's not so low that it's a steal. It's just a very average price, so I'm not sure how much success I will have in negotiating anything off that price. But I'm certainly willing to try if anyone has some ideas on how to get past the initial no response I'm going to get.
Rominl - I think you're right, I like new technology and trading in every 3 years keeps me current on that.
The GS is a great car, but it's just hard to get excited about a GS after driving an LS460L for 3 years. It doesn't really do anything the LS didn't already do. I loved the LS460L, and if I were going to own a car for a long time, this would definitely be a great one to own. It's been outstanding to drive, and bulletproof for reliability.
Owning another LS460 for three more years certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, just a bit boring, and I think I'm feeling the need to try something else. The BMW 5 series looks OK, but end of life for this model, so maybe if there is a great lease deal out there it makes sense, but otherwise probably not. The 2010 E-class looks like the most logical one for me. I don't need an S-class or a 7-series. I'm looking foward to driving something a little smaller and more nimble.
As for buying out the lease, has anyone successfully bought a car at the end of the lease from Lexus for less than the contracted residual value? I tried pretty hard to do that on my last purchase and they said they absolutely refuse to negotiate any discount off the contract residual amount. They just put the cars up for auction and let the dealers big against each other on them. At $47K, it's not so high that it's outrageous, but it's not so low that it's a steal. It's just a very average price, so I'm not sure how much success I will have in negotiating anything off that price. But I'm certainly willing to try if anyone has some ideas on how to get past the initial no response I'm going to get.
personally i have yet to see lexus negotiating on buyout price. maybe it's been done, but i haven't see anyone who i know able to do that yet. they either pay the price, or they return. dealership didn't even talk
08-12-09, 09:13 AM
#18
I would stay away from German cars if you want reliability. If you want to go to a midsize car you should check out the Infiniti M45. Very nice car, smaller than the LS, cheaper than your LS residual, great reviews. That was my midsize choice before I bought my LS.
Personally, I would attempt to negotiate the buyout of your current LS. Maybe they will deal a little, don't know, never leased.
Personally, I would attempt to negotiate the buyout of your current LS. Maybe they will deal a little, don't know, never leased.
08-12-09, 01:01 PM
#20
Driver
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose the LS could be "boring". Although, for me, that is the benefit, since it is unbelievably comfortable and I love listening to the stereo.
I have an 80 mile round trip commute to work, so comfort is key.
Perhaps keep the Lexus and get a low-end BMW like 328i for the days you want something a little more exciting?
I have an 80 mile round trip commute to work, so comfort is key.
Perhaps keep the Lexus and get a low-end BMW like 328i for the days you want something a little more exciting?
08-13-09, 06:21 AM
#21
Driver
Thread Starter
I suppose the LS could be "boring". Although, for me, that is the benefit, since it is unbelievably comfortable and I love listening to the stereo.
I have an 80 mile round trip commute to work, so comfort is key.
Perhaps keep the Lexus and get a low-end BMW like 328i for the days you want something a little more exciting?
I have an 80 mile round trip commute to work, so comfort is key.
Perhaps keep the Lexus and get a low-end BMW like 328i for the days you want something a little more exciting?
I think it would be a great buy at around $35K. I base that on the fact that in 2008 they were selling year end models at invoice less a $6K marketing incentive, so that would have put this car at about $70K. If after three years it's worth about 50%, that makes it a $35K car. At $47K, I have to agree with rominl, it just does not make sense to purchase it, as disappointing as that is to me.
08-17-09, 01:10 PM
#22
Driver
Thread Starter
I visited a Mercedes and BMW dealership this weekend to see what the options are if I were to return my Lexus. Very interesting experience.
I spent a lot of time at the Mercedes dealership test driving both an E350 and E550 sedan. I went through all of the car's electronics, and paid close attention to the navigation system. With no touch screen, my options were to try and talk to the car, which seemed incredibly frustrating to me, or to use that COMMAND jog/dial, which seems equally unintuitive. I know I would get used to it eventually, but I don't think I would ever find it to be more enjoyable to use then a touch screen. I'm really curious why they have not implemented touch screen technology by now.
The other thing I found interesting is that even though it is a 2010 model, it did not support my Iphone. I got the warning that the device is not made to work with Iphone, would I like to put it in airplane mode...and, it did not recharge the phone, so that makes it pretty worthless. So far, I was not impressed.
As for driving impressions, the E550 was a lot of fun to drive, great acceleration and handling. The E350 was not so exciting. It felt like any middle of the road six cylinder car.
Overall, I was not terribly excited. The front of the car looks pretty nice, but the rear looks really cheap to me. And the cheap leather on the steering wheel was a noticeable contrast to the beautiful wood and leather on my Lexus. More to the point, to equip the E550 with the upper end options, it brings the sticker price to over $70K. At that price, an LS460 seems like a much better value to me. I thought I was trading down by looking at an E-class, but with that pricing, I feel like I'm trading down the car without getting the corresponding savings.
I also went to a BMW dealership look at both the 5 and 7 series. With the 5 being in its last year before a redesign, I did not pay much attention to it, so I focused on the 7 series. The exterior is very nice looking, and the interior is certainly very elegant. Since I pay a lot of attention to electronics, I decided to go through the navigation test first to see if it was any better than Mercedes. Unfortunately, it was not. After 10 minutes of fussing with it, the sales person still could not figure out how to get my address into the system. And I only lived four miles away, on the same street. It kept giving us four different choices for the same street name, and no matter which one we selected, it would not let us enter a house address. And again, no touch screen, just a goofy jog/dial system which looks like a terrible distraction while driving. We gave up trying and moved on.
The sticker on the car states in big bold letters that this car is a gas guzzler and is subject to a $1300 tax because of it. I don't remember the exact gas mileage, but I know it was significantly less than the Lexus. I don't get it. The car has about the same 0-60 time as the LS460, but it burns significantly more fuel. And, on top of the extra gas I would have to pay, I have to pay an additional $1300 to the government for the right to abuse the planet? I was just so disappointed that I didn't even bother to test drive it. I'm sure it would be fun to drive. I had a 740 a while ago, and it was great to drive, but it went into the shop almost monthly to fix this and that.
So, overall, I left the dealerships with a new appreciation for my Lexus. I was so relieved to be able to drive it after the Mercedes experience that I'm still scratching my head trying to remember why I went down this road. I seem to remember hearing people talk about $400 lease payments on these E-class cars, but they were quoting rates over $1,000 per month for the E550, and they didn't even go out of their way to try and sell me one. Maybe my underwhelming response was an indication not to even bother trying.
I guess I'll wait until Lexus announces any changes to the 2010 LS, and see what kind of end of year deals may be coming my way, and re-evaluate in a few months. Just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys. Thanks again for all the input.
I spent a lot of time at the Mercedes dealership test driving both an E350 and E550 sedan. I went through all of the car's electronics, and paid close attention to the navigation system. With no touch screen, my options were to try and talk to the car, which seemed incredibly frustrating to me, or to use that COMMAND jog/dial, which seems equally unintuitive. I know I would get used to it eventually, but I don't think I would ever find it to be more enjoyable to use then a touch screen. I'm really curious why they have not implemented touch screen technology by now.
The other thing I found interesting is that even though it is a 2010 model, it did not support my Iphone. I got the warning that the device is not made to work with Iphone, would I like to put it in airplane mode...and, it did not recharge the phone, so that makes it pretty worthless. So far, I was not impressed.
As for driving impressions, the E550 was a lot of fun to drive, great acceleration and handling. The E350 was not so exciting. It felt like any middle of the road six cylinder car.
Overall, I was not terribly excited. The front of the car looks pretty nice, but the rear looks really cheap to me. And the cheap leather on the steering wheel was a noticeable contrast to the beautiful wood and leather on my Lexus. More to the point, to equip the E550 with the upper end options, it brings the sticker price to over $70K. At that price, an LS460 seems like a much better value to me. I thought I was trading down by looking at an E-class, but with that pricing, I feel like I'm trading down the car without getting the corresponding savings.
I also went to a BMW dealership look at both the 5 and 7 series. With the 5 being in its last year before a redesign, I did not pay much attention to it, so I focused on the 7 series. The exterior is very nice looking, and the interior is certainly very elegant. Since I pay a lot of attention to electronics, I decided to go through the navigation test first to see if it was any better than Mercedes. Unfortunately, it was not. After 10 minutes of fussing with it, the sales person still could not figure out how to get my address into the system. And I only lived four miles away, on the same street. It kept giving us four different choices for the same street name, and no matter which one we selected, it would not let us enter a house address. And again, no touch screen, just a goofy jog/dial system which looks like a terrible distraction while driving. We gave up trying and moved on.
The sticker on the car states in big bold letters that this car is a gas guzzler and is subject to a $1300 tax because of it. I don't remember the exact gas mileage, but I know it was significantly less than the Lexus. I don't get it. The car has about the same 0-60 time as the LS460, but it burns significantly more fuel. And, on top of the extra gas I would have to pay, I have to pay an additional $1300 to the government for the right to abuse the planet? I was just so disappointed that I didn't even bother to test drive it. I'm sure it would be fun to drive. I had a 740 a while ago, and it was great to drive, but it went into the shop almost monthly to fix this and that.
So, overall, I left the dealerships with a new appreciation for my Lexus. I was so relieved to be able to drive it after the Mercedes experience that I'm still scratching my head trying to remember why I went down this road. I seem to remember hearing people talk about $400 lease payments on these E-class cars, but they were quoting rates over $1,000 per month for the E550, and they didn't even go out of their way to try and sell me one. Maybe my underwhelming response was an indication not to even bother trying.
I guess I'll wait until Lexus announces any changes to the 2010 LS, and see what kind of end of year deals may be coming my way, and re-evaluate in a few months. Just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys. Thanks again for all the input.
08-17-09, 01:57 PM
#23
very interesting experience and good info there 
touch screen definitely has its pro but also cons, though i agree with you overall i still love touch screen a lot more. in my m3 the idrive is always not the easiest thing to use. i am surprised though that iphone doesn't pair, i think i have a few friends with bmw and their iphones pair up no problem. i can't say exactly for mb though. but in terms of bluetooth features, i have to say lexus is behind by quite a bit. phone book feature sux on the lexus coz' most of us can't even transfer phone book, whereas bmw is brilliant coz' it access your phone for phonebook, never try to transfer anything over. so you pair different phones and you get different books.
moreoever, on bmw, you can setup a few phones and it will pair them in priority. for example in our m3 it will try to find my wife's phone, if not, then mine, etc... but in our lexus, we have to manually go in and select. and with the navigation lock out, if you find out about that when you are on the freeway, good luck
on the pricing, just keep in mind you shouldn't look at the msrp and compare them, you should look at the market price, where mb and bmw usually have better "discounts". although of course, the new e class just came out so i won't expect much deals on them.
all cars have their pros and cons, just make sure you get one that you know you will be happy with for the next 3-4 yrs.
touch screen definitely has its pro but also cons, though i agree with you overall i still love touch screen a lot more. in my m3 the idrive is always not the easiest thing to use. i am surprised though that iphone doesn't pair, i think i have a few friends with bmw and their iphones pair up no problem. i can't say exactly for mb though. but in terms of bluetooth features, i have to say lexus is behind by quite a bit. phone book feature sux on the lexus coz' most of us can't even transfer phone book, whereas bmw is brilliant coz' it access your phone for phonebook, never try to transfer anything over. so you pair different phones and you get different books.
moreoever, on bmw, you can setup a few phones and it will pair them in priority. for example in our m3 it will try to find my wife's phone, if not, then mine, etc... but in our lexus, we have to manually go in and select. and with the navigation lock out, if you find out about that when you are on the freeway, good luck
on the pricing, just keep in mind you shouldn't look at the msrp and compare them, you should look at the market price, where mb and bmw usually have better "discounts". although of course, the new e class just came out so i won't expect much deals on them.
all cars have their pros and cons, just make sure you get one that you know you will be happy with for the next 3-4 yrs.
08-17-09, 02:08 PM
#24
Driver
Thread Starter
I was typing fast, so I probably was not very clear about the Iphone issue. Since I'm guessing I'm not the only one with an Iphone, it's probably good info for anyone else thinking about buying a Mercedes.
This has nothing to do with Bluetooth. I'm sure the bluetooth would pair just fine for making hands free phone calls. What I'm referring to is the Ipod docking feature, where you can plug an Ipod or Iphone into the Ipod connector cable in the glove compartment, and then select different music or podcasts by using the COMMAND jog/dial to scroll through the content of the Ipod while it is in the glove compartment, without having to use the Iphone touch screen to change songs or content. In addition, the title of the song would display on the stereo head unit in the car, or the navigation system, depending on how it is implemented. It's a feature which is clearly lacking in my LS460. At best, if I wanted to listen to an Ipod or Iphone in my Lexus, I would have to use the headphone jack, and the sound quality would not be nearly as good as if you connect through the Ipod dock connector.
The problem with docking speakers is that they generally do not have the shielding necessary to shield from GSM cellular signals, and so when you connect an Iphone, you get interference and feedback sounds. I did not specifically hear these sounds on the Mercedes, but what I did notice is that it specifically states when I plug it in that the Mercedes sound system is not certified to work with an Iphone. More importantly, the dock did not charge the phone, so after using it for a day or so, you would have a dead Iphone, which defeats the whole purpose of offering an Ipod dock in the car. This is a common problem with Ipod docking speakers - unless they specifically say they support the Iphone, they may not may not charge the phone, and they may or may not create feedback from GSM signals. Almost all of the speaker companys that make these products have been upgrading their products to support Iphone over the past 12 months. It just seems odd that for a 2010 model car, they still did not address this. Probably not a big deal for most people, and certainly not a big enough issue to not choose the car. Just a minor little annoyance.
This has nothing to do with Bluetooth. I'm sure the bluetooth would pair just fine for making hands free phone calls. What I'm referring to is the Ipod docking feature, where you can plug an Ipod or Iphone into the Ipod connector cable in the glove compartment, and then select different music or podcasts by using the COMMAND jog/dial to scroll through the content of the Ipod while it is in the glove compartment, without having to use the Iphone touch screen to change songs or content. In addition, the title of the song would display on the stereo head unit in the car, or the navigation system, depending on how it is implemented. It's a feature which is clearly lacking in my LS460. At best, if I wanted to listen to an Ipod or Iphone in my Lexus, I would have to use the headphone jack, and the sound quality would not be nearly as good as if you connect through the Ipod dock connector.
The problem with docking speakers is that they generally do not have the shielding necessary to shield from GSM cellular signals, and so when you connect an Iphone, you get interference and feedback sounds. I did not specifically hear these sounds on the Mercedes, but what I did notice is that it specifically states when I plug it in that the Mercedes sound system is not certified to work with an Iphone. More importantly, the dock did not charge the phone, so after using it for a day or so, you would have a dead Iphone, which defeats the whole purpose of offering an Ipod dock in the car. This is a common problem with Ipod docking speakers - unless they specifically say they support the Iphone, they may not may not charge the phone, and they may or may not create feedback from GSM signals. Almost all of the speaker companys that make these products have been upgrading their products to support Iphone over the past 12 months. It just seems odd that for a 2010 model car, they still did not address this. Probably not a big deal for most people, and certainly not a big enough issue to not choose the car. Just a minor little annoyance.
08-17-09, 02:25 PM
#25
I suppose your LS460L is 07. Will it be worth $47K in Jan 2010? Not sure.
Plus so many things could happen in the meantime (rumors about the new design and other new things could affect the residual value of your car).
The good thing though is that you know what you're getting. It's been your car and you know every single detail about it. Though I would negotiate the dealer to bring the price down.
Personally I'm not that type of person who switches cars often, so if I were you I would keep my car till the next gen of LS (probably 2013) since the car is as reliable as it could get.
Good luck!
Plus so many things could happen in the meantime (rumors about the new design and other new things could affect the residual value of your car).
The good thing though is that you know what you're getting. It's been your car and you know every single detail about it. Though I would negotiate the dealer to bring the price down.
Personally I'm not that type of person who switches cars often, so if I were you I would keep my car till the next gen of LS (probably 2013) since the car is as reliable as it could get.
Good luck!
08-17-09, 02:55 PM
#26
I'm looking foward to driving something a little smaller and more nimble.
I will second what G2Lexus said. Go test drive an Infiniti M45. Its blazing fast
and handles well.
I will second what G2Lexus said. Go test drive an Infiniti M45. Its blazing fast
and handles well.
08-18-09, 09:02 AM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
I visited a Mercedes and BMW dealership this weekend to see what the options are if I were to return my Lexus. Very interesting experience.
I spent a lot of time at the Mercedes dealership test driving both an E350 and E550 sedan. I went through all of the car's electronics, and paid close attention to the navigation system. With no touch screen, my options were to try and talk to the car, which seemed incredibly frustrating to me, or to use that COMMAND jog/dial, which seems equally unintuitive. I know I would get used to it eventually, but I don't think I would ever find it to be more enjoyable to use then a touch screen. I'm really curious why they have not implemented touch screen technology by now.
I spent a lot of time at the Mercedes dealership test driving both an E350 and E550 sedan. I went through all of the car's electronics, and paid close attention to the navigation system. With no touch screen, my options were to try and talk to the car, which seemed incredibly frustrating to me, or to use that COMMAND jog/dial, which seems equally unintuitive. I know I would get used to it eventually, but I don't think I would ever find it to be more enjoyable to use then a touch screen. I'm really curious why they have not implemented touch screen technology by now.
.
.
08-18-09, 10:13 AM
#28
08-18-09, 11:58 AM
#29
I have seriously contemplated buying a convertible Mini for the garage and hide behind the "it's my wife's car" story. Still a fun test drive.
08-18-09, 01:01 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
I test drove the new 7 Series recently and was extremely impressed with this car. The exterior and interior are flawless. The car I drove had the longer wheelbase. I took it onto the highway and through neighborhoods. On the highway, the car performed like a sports car (I drive an M6). Acceleration was immediate, I was doing 80 mph before I left the entrance ramp; the ride and steering were quite solid, there's no softness to this car. What really impressed me though was how nimble the car was - the ride is smooth and solid and the car can turn with the slghtest effort to the steering wheel. I made a u-turn when I drove it through a neighborhood and the car behaved as if it was shorter than it really was. For what it's worth, I noticed an LS460 driver turn his head as he drove by the 7.
The following users liked this post:
RadiantX45 (07-17-24)