rominl

iTrader: (4)

i will say that it's not "fact", let alone "obvious". it can be one's opinion, but that's where it ends

elite7

Let me guess you are saying its outdated because you disagree with it? If the Mercedes was given 99 out of 100 points you would say its not outdated .

Its clearly NOT outdated as evidenced in the Consumer Reports 2010 top picks.
Go do some research and you will be surprised. Guess what? The result is the same. The 2010 LS460 gets the pick once again as best car. You call that outdated?

Everyone knows that Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and Automobile magazine are biased. Shows how much you know.....Go do some googling and you will see how many people are complaining that Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and Automobile magazine are biased towards European Cars.

Consumer reports on the other hand isnt. They are honest. If consumer reports was biased they wouldnt issue a report on how unsafe the GX460 is which resulted in Lexus issuing a recall.

I checked out carconnection.com. If you did some research you would see they knocked the LS460 down for Styling which they rated it a 7 and Performance which they rated it a 7. Thats just their opinion and it doesnt mean its fact.

They rated the S550 a 8 in Styling and a 9 in Performance even though the 2010 LS460 has the same 0-60 time as a 2010 S550. So even though the 0-60 is the same, 1/4 mile is the same, horsepower is the same, they are gonna rate the LS460 a 7 and the S550 a 9? You feel thats fair? Please tell me you are joking.....

Then carconnection.com has the nerve to rate the S550 a 10 in Quality. You've got to be kidding me. Everyone knows the car is unreliable. If they are rating the S550 a 10 in Quality the LS460 should be rated a 20. They rate the LS460 a 9 in Quality which is complete baloney. That site is a complete joke....


Anyone looking for an unbiased viewpoint looks to Consumer Reports or JD Power.

There is not even 1 Mercedes or BMW on the Consumer Reports' 2010 Top Picks.

Consumer Reports rated the LS460L best car overall.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...es-them/page-6

Then again why am i even replying to you? You should know how good Lexus is otherwise you wouldnt own your GS430 right? You would be driving a Mercedes or BMW instead.

Bottom line - Lexus luxury, performance, quality, reliability and technology is unmatched. Stop your hate and just accept it. Ignorant people like to waste money on cars that will cost even more to maintain. The Lexus LS460 is the best car out right now.

C'mon texan629 do you really want to argue which car is better when consumer reports itself rated the Lexus LS460 an A+ while the Mercedes S550 was rated a B?

MannyRCF

LOl thats funny

Nospinzone

Wrong.

If Lexus put another $25,000 into the manufacture of the LS460, it would so far out pace the other two vehicles that they might have zero sales!

Seven07

If you were right, Lexus would have done it a long time ago

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Kinda taken on a Chevrolet vs. Ford discussion. These contenders have appeal for a broad segment of car buyer-driver and will be subjective. Of course the owner will defend their purchase...who buys a car that undermines what they felt was a long thought decision process. It is akin to calling them misguided among nicer words. No right or wrong...just what the driver is willing in $$ to put towards what they enjoy driving. Individuality.

I enjoy the Toyota product and it suits me. The 460 is my target but not yet.

RXSF

My god, arent we all posting in America where Lexus is respected next to Mercedes and BMW? From the last two pages of this thread, it would seem like we were in Europe or something, haha.

All I know is the Lexus nameplate bears just the same amount of prestige as a luxury car make as Mercedes and BMW. With that said, the large permium sedans such as the S class and LS are a different story.

I think Benz really has that market covered. most people "aspire" to the S class, it has always been for the elite, like dictators and rulers of state. It has been the choice vehicle to tell people are your status. However, I think the LS comes damn close.

Regarding the price:
The LS430 started in the mid 50s, and yes, it was probably due to the fact that there wasnt much prestige behind lexus in the early 2000s. Now the LS460 LWB starts at 72K, and of course we have the 600HL which starts are a whopping 106K. People no longer buy a Lexus purely on value as they may have in the past.

Seven07

It is a FACT that Lexus LS is priced lower than BMW and MB. It is OBVIOUS that Lexus priced it that way to give them a chance at sales against BMW and MB.

With that said, is it a fact that Lexus more reliable than BMW and MB? Yes. Is Lexus design better than BMW and MB? It's subjective and there's no definite answer for this since everyone has their own taste. Is Lexus as prestige and in the same league as BMW and MB? $25,000 No. Is Lexus better than BMW and MB? Again, it's subjective. It's depend on what you're looking for in a car in term of reliability, prestige, performance or design.

And that's why eventhough Lexus is more reliable and cheaper than it's competitors, it still can't put BMW and MB out of business.

bsl888

Lexus is as prestigious as Mercedes. The proof is, as one magazine jokingly stated (I believe it was Car and Driver), when strippers have stage names like Lexus or Mercedes, you know you have arrived.

A little off topic, but has anyone noticed the updated styling of the S-class and the new 7 series copied the LS's rear exhaust.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

excuse me, but let me requote you again

you said it's an obvious fact that lexus isn't in the same league as mb and bmw, which last i checked was not a fact. again, you are entitled to your opinion, i respect that, and it's completely fine. but your opinion doesn't mean fact, not even close.

see, your opinion, nothing more, nothing less. just like some people say bmw is not the same as mb in terms of prestige or vise versa. opinions, not facts.

cheaper and more reliable AUTOMATICALLY put others out of business? i guess you missed the part about driving feel, handling, brand loyalty, personal preference, etc...?

and i guess all auto magazine editors are complete morons (not like i think they are genius though) coz' they constantly put mb, bmw, lexus, audi, jag together in comparison and compared fairly.

see, i am not pro lexus, i own bmw too. i respect comments from all sides, everyone has their preference. but when people put opinions as facts, that's another matter

Tee

You keep bringing up the $25K more suggesting that it makes MB & BMW better, did you ever think they are both overpriced to fit the brand image hype?! So the 25K IMO (notice the IMO vs Fact) extra you are paying for is all prestige to go along with some big egos that end up driving them. Last I doubt Lexus got into the hi end car market to put MB & BMW out of business, hardley a good business model, Lexus plan was to find the niche inthe lux market and improve what the others were failing. Look at as not trying to re-invent the wheel but make the wheel better.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

BMW and MB have an established market. Their buyers like to believe the premium brings additional prestige. Does it or not? The varying views will say yes, no and maybe. The perspective will change depending on your buying criteria. Does that $25K bring a significantly more refined ride, handling performance, comfort...? Like HP, 25HP may be more but when at the limit of an engine build, did spending $ to get there yield a equitable ratio?

Lexus is young at the export luxo market compared to MB and BMW. Like any product, one just doesn't jump off and charge what the old names can and do. It is a poor marketing move. Why spend the same when the buyer can get a known entity. Lexus has worked their way up, they are not an unknown now. The sales numbers reflect they have gained market in luxury sedans.

Much of the car buying is also based on what stokes the ego. This is a treadmill game.

amcdonal86

As much as I love Lexus, anyone who thinks it has as much prestige as German brands such as BMW and Mercedes is living under a rock!

That being said, I think Toyota should be proud of what it's done with the Lexus brand.

Seven07

Thank you. That's exactly my point. When you guys bought your LS, don't tell me you didn't put reliability first before prestige. Trust me, people that buy BMW and MB know that Lexus is more reliable, but reliability doesn't mean anything for a certain people. You can say all you want, but Lexus isn't there yet in term of prestige.

For you that said BMW and MB are over price, you don't understand a thing about prestige. I guess you've never paid 6 oz of steak for $100 and not complain about it.

elite7

Look we have nothing to talk about. I did my research and i back it up with facts. As i said everyone knows that Car and Driver is biased towards German cars. Not only that but Car and Driver is mainly a magazine for performance vehicles. I guarantee you no one is buying a LS460, 750iL, or S550 just based on the performance. There are many other vehicles that can be had for less than 1/2 the money that would beat all 3 of these cars in terms of performance. There is no way the S550 is worth the money or any German cars for that matter when comparing to Lexus. I already told you consumer reports isnt biased towards japanese cars. If they were they wouldnt report that the GX460 is unsafe at higher speed leading to a recall by Lexus.

The Lexus LS is a car that has more attention put into it than any other car on the market. The car is actually hand sanded before every layer of paint goes on. The sound of the door closing was benchmarked using heavy wooden doors and engineers were told to emulate the sound that the doors on the Lexus close, the way the ***** feel, are all purposefully built. Even the headlights, were modeled after Baccarat crystal wine glasses. Every little detail in this car has been looked into. Each vehicle is inspected by a Master technician before it leaves the factory. And this is, in effect, is what the LS 460 takumis do. And it is not just checking the engine. They check all aspects of the vehicle. The paint. The body. The fabrics. Everything.

Even the Stereo blows Mercedes and BMW's out of the water. $176,000. That's what it is estimated the Mark Levinson system in the LS 460 would cost if it had been developed for home use. Without a doubt Mark Levinson is the finest audio system you can get. The LS460 is loaded with more technology than the S550 but when you step inside it you don't feel overwhelmed by all it has to offer. On the other hand go step into the S-Class you'd be afraid to touch things because its so confusing.

Its easy to see which car is better engineered(All numbers came from Edmunds):

Lexus LS460

Db @ Idle: 39.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 65.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 58.2

Mercedes S550
Db @ Idle: 44.0
Db @ Full Throttle: 76.5
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 64.4

BMW 750i

Db @ idle: 41.1
Db @ full throttle: 73.6
Db @ 70 mph cruise: 66.7


You are gonna still tell me the Mercedes S550 is better because Car and Driver said so right? There is absolutely no way the German cars are worth their money. Keep the jokes coming.

Matter of fact why dont you put your money where your mouth is and go buy the Mercedes s550 if its such a good car? Then lets talk in 5 years and see whos car is still running trouble free and whos car had to go in for service multiple times.

Unlike you i know the S class is a unreliable piece of junk. One of my good friends had a 1996 S500 and the suspension blew after a few years. Another one of my friends had a 1995 and his suspension went out as well. On the other hand my 1996 Lexus LS400 has never even had a tuneup let alone changed out the suspension.

I dont see the point of this discussion if you will never even own a LS460 or a S550. Last time i checked they cost twice as much as a GS430..... Im not saying to go buy a Lexus just because of the reliability. Im saying to buy a Lexus because it beats Mercedes and BMW in every aspect.

If i wanted to be like you I can talk all i want about how Ferraris are awesome yet i would never buy one because i wouldnt be able to afford it. I bet automobile magazines rated Ferraris really high on their lists too.

I put my money where my mouth is as i own a 2008 Lexus LS460. Talking is one thing. Actually going out and shelling out the money for the vehicle is a whole different ballpark.

I couldve went and bought the 750iL or the S550. They are either cheaters or they dont know how to build engines. The 750il uses a turbo just to get a little more power than the naturally aspirated LS460 has and the 5.5 Liter
V8 in the S550 outputs the same power as the 4.6 Liter V8 in the LS460. Thats sad that an engine with almost a Liter more outputs the same power as an engine with almost a full Liter less. Shows who can engineer their product better. I checked both out out of curiousity before i purchased my LS460. Both couldnt even compare to the LS460. It doesnt matter what some car enthusiast magazines say. Ultimately they arent buying the car, consumers are.

Look we are just going to be arguing back and forth all year long about which is better while at the end of the day i have my 2008 Lexus LS460 parked in my garage and for some reason you dont have that Mercedes S550 parked in your garage....

No matter where you wanna analyze it the Lexus LS460 is a better car than both the Mercedes S550 or the BMW 750il in terms of Fuel efficiency, Awards Won, Performance, Cost, Reliability, Luxury, Stereo System, Comfort, Quietness, etc. Sorry if you still can't see this, you must be very blind.



All that the German cars do have over Lexus is the badge which involves a longer history of making cars. Thats it. Doesnt mean thier vehicle is of higher quality or worth the money. I said it once and i'll say it again ask any mechanic who is knowledgeable and they will tell you there is no way that the German vehicles are worth their money.

Of course no one wants to pay money to keep maintaining the vehicle due to reliability problems. If you are paying $80,000+ for a vehicle and it starts having reliability issue anyone would get pissed off. Great analogy man. Toyota isnt even in the same league. One car is made in USA and one car is made in Japan. Youre taking my post out of context. Less maintenance is just one of the many positives of Lexus to go along with the Fuel efficiency, Awards Won, Performance, Cost, Reliability, Luxury, Stereo System, Comfort, Quietness, etc.

Yep S Class is the king of being an unreliable piece of junk scoring below industry average on JD Power reliability studies. By the way most people lease or get a loan to buy that BMW or Mercedes. Just because someone is driving an expensive luxury sedan doesnt mean they own it.....


We have nothing else to discuss. All you are doing is providing your opinion because its all you could do. Just because you say the S550 is better doesnt make it a fact. You need numbers and facts to back yourself up. If you really look at the hard numbers and provide facts as i have its very easy to see that the Lexus LS460 is the clear winner and there is no way the German cars are worth their money.

Now if you respond to this posting its just gonna make you out to be Ignorant to us true Lexus Enthusiasts. Please stop embarassing yourself.

Regards.