Johnny

It's not cushy in the pure sense of the word - unlike a Citroen, but buffers bumps better, and firmer, so the response is more controlled. The bags hold the position that was set when the engine is stopped. There are only two positions, high and low. There is a controller out there that gives you more range, but I doubt that would interest you. The reliability is as good a Lexus's reputation, but yes parts will fail over time, so that why we have extended warranties.

jstjohnz

I don't think that's true. I have seen this comment a couple of times, but I think the seat travel in the L is exactly the same as in the SWB. I wish what you are saying is true, but I'm afraid it's not.

It seems like a simple design change that could have been a big benefit to those who need a bit more front seat legroom.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

air suspension is reliable imho. i have seen a few problems here on clublexus, but i think that's minority. the air bag does not deflate when you shut off the car, otherwise the car will drop to the floor right the way. but when the car is running, the system will constantly monitor the ride height (passengers and inclines) and turn on / off the compressors independently to adjust the height. the compressors work pretty slowly and that helps on reliability

Johnny

Well, I owned the 2007 460 SWB for 16 months, and my seat was at the furthest position with my feet comfortably resting on the gas & brake - it was my normal driving position. When I traded for the 2008 600 LWB - a car that I held on for 22 months, it was the first thing I noticed. With the seat in the furthest position, my feet were at least three inches away from the pedals. I had to move the seat forward to drive the car. So, what else can I say? I didn't get out and measure the difference, it was just there...

The Lexus specs don't indicate this, so unless something was impeding the backward travel on the SWB, then I can only relate my own experience as strange as it may seem.

jspice

i just bought my LS460L and test drove both before buying. I agree that the LWB was well worth the money. When people ride in the back they can feel the VIP ride.....just a thought

jcp

I figured I would bump an old thread versus starting my own.

I have primarily been searching for a SWB LS460 for about $35k. Occasionally, I have seen a couple LWB cars in the same price range as the SWB. If the price were only a few thousand dollars different, is the LWB the better choice?

Personally, I like the novelty of the reclining back seats, but I will never be sitting in the back seat, which will be primarily used by my kids. However, I do carry clients occasionally, but the SWB car is already over the top in my opinion.

I think the only option that really matters to me is the two LWB cars I saw happen to have the semi-aniline leather and none of the SWB cars I have seen to date has the upgraded leather.

Finally, the LS460 is not known to be a sporty handling car, but is the SWB car more nimble and better handling than the LWB car?

Thanks for any feedback!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

handling of swb and lwb are very similar, i wouldn't ding lwb on handling

most lwb (keyword most) have air suspension which provides a noticeably better ride quality. also the lwb provides smoother ride in general as well

Tee

Having been fortunate to own both I have to say the LWB is the better of the two when it comes to ride quality, leg room and features. I loved my SWB it was no slouch at all but after driving/riding in friends LWB I knew it was the better between the two once I was able to compare. You mention that you won't sit in the back I thought the same but my wife drives sometimes and I sit back there even on lunch breaks just get out of the office, the reclining seats are nice! You also said you will sometimes drive clients around, well they will defiantly feel like there are getting the VIP treatment sitting in the cavernous rear the LWB offers to rear passengers. Last I agree with Henry they both handle pretty much the same, I don't feel like the LWB is less nimble than SWB IMO.

jd986s

MB owner here want to share a different perspective.

MB S class is usually a model that MB will introduce their latest and greatest technology. First 2-3 years of production are not the best to buy. 1st year is typically the worst year for any MB cars (2000 W220 S class, 2007 W221 S class etc.) W222 so far has a good reputation for reliability (relatively to other cars in its class).

If you do your homework, don't be afraid of MB S class out of warranty. I will share some of my cost below.

1) Find a good independent mechanic in your area. Start calling them about pre-purchase inspection about the car you may be interested in and get their opinion about year/model etc. Ask about their service A (oil change) and Service B (oil + cabin filter change).

2) Spend some time in the MB forum, W221 and W222 has been solid for the most part with few exceptions (first year of the car or engine).

3) The stealers are not your best friends and will charge you a lot more than what you need to pay (this isn't unique to MB).

How much does it cost to maintain S class if you can do some of the basic maintenance yourself? (oil change, air filter , spark plugs, cabin filter).

I've been MB customer for the last 20+ years (was a loyal Toyota customer before that) . I started off with C280 (W202), C320 (W203), C230 (W203), E55 (W210), E500 (W211), S55 (W220) and currently 2010 W221 S550. My next car is likely 2016-17 W222 S63/S550 or 2019-20 W222 S560/S63.

Oil change (every $10k miles/1year)
My mechanic charges $50 labor for oil change. I bring my own oil. You can buy Mobil 1 0W40 from Costco on sale for under $30 (6 bottles). Or go to Walmart to get a gallon for under $25. Most V8 S class takes 8-9 quarts. Oil filter is $15. Many independent will charge about $85-$100 for synthetic oil change here in So. Cal.
Since pandemic, I've been doing the oil change myself. Bought electric pump from Amazon for $20, pump oil out of dipstick and oil filter is on the top of the engine. Very easy to do even if you cannot turn the wrench. There are Youtube videos showing how to do oil change and air filter or spark plugs.

Cabin filter (every 20k miles/ 2 oil changes)
Cabin filter is around $30 / set online (OEM). I am considering HEPA filter from 3M for about $25 for my next cabin filter.

Brake pads/rotors
I have an AMG sport package with slightly larger brakes (350mm front). I can buy front brake rotors (MB part, online) for about $100 each. Front pads just under $80. Rear rotors for $70 each (MB parts) and pads for under $70. Sensors are about $20 each, need one for front another one for rear.
Parts cost under $600. My mechanic will charge $150 pads/rotors for each axel. Under $1000 for all pads/rotors/sensors parts and labor for independent.
With my driving habit I get 40k miles for front pads, 80k miles front rotors (consumable item). 60k miles rear pads, 120k miles rear rotors.

Air-suspension.
Air suspension will fail for any cars with air suspension. Arnott sells rebuilt front air struts for about $500 each with lifetime warranty. Rear is under $400 each. My mechanic charges $150 to install a pair of air suspension.

Transmission fluid
MB recommends transmission fluid / filter change every 40k miles. I used to get dealer coupon for about $300. My mechanic charges $180 labor. I can get fluid/filter from FCP Euro for $120-150 depending on which brand I choose.

Spark Plugs (every 60k miles for M273 engine)
Just changed plugs for my M273 V8 engine. Got NGK Laser Platinum (what OEM uses) for about $11 each. My mechanic charges $75 labor. I can probably do it myself but too lazy to do it). $163 parts/labor.

Heater valve (4-zone climate control)
My heater was intermittent, after a search, found that heater valve was the common cause. Part was under $60 (online) and labor was $75.

Starter
My car starter was going out (take time to start). New Bosch starter with lifetime warranty was $200. Labor $140.

Battery (Group 49, AGM battery)
You can pick up a group 49 battery from various places, I've seen them at Sam's club when they go on sale for about $150. Changing it is as simple as changing other car battery. If you keep the battery charge, it'll last 8-10 years. I use trickle charger when I don't drive much.

The key to owning MB S class is to find a car in excellent shape with great service history. There will likely have something go wrong from time to time. Probably more than LS. I can't tell you if S class is better than LS. I think this is your personal preference. if you like luxury, comfort, safety and technology , you will not be disappointed in S class W221 or W222. How the S class ride varies greatly on the packages/options that you select. If you can find one with Active Body Control suspension, you'll have the best of both world in comfort and great handling car. You can configure suspension for comfort or sport with ABC or Airmatic. 2018 and later cars has different profiles to switch to from comfort to sport to individual (steering, suspension, throttle).

Prepare for expensive brake parts on AMG models (S63/S65) as part cost alone are in $4000 range (pad/rotors front and rear). The AMG sport package gives you cross drill/vented rotors in larger diameter but much cheaper on parts compare to real AMG cars. If cost is a concern, stay with S550/S560, it's not that bad to maintain. Dealer charges more than MSRP for parts so look online for MB parts or OEM.

My car is 11 years old and it's been solid. Previous owner took great care of it but sold the car at the end of CPO warranty. I paid a premium to get my S550 as it was in great shape and full service history along with rare options (rear seat pkg, rear-seat entertainment, Premium2, Pano roof, driver assistance pkg, Napa leather, split view, Night vision). Used S class already depreciated from their original price, don't buy the cheapest MB S class. Find the best one. Took me over a year to find it and it's been a great experience for me. if you do your homework and find an honest MB mechanic, MB S class will put smiles on your face every time you drive it. I hope this help someone make a decision. If you're in So. Cal, I'd be more than happy to share 3rd party mechanics ( I have two great ones).

JLAWS

jd986s , thank you for sharing your in-depth experience with a Benz, but for me "Oh hell to the NO!"
I'll take soon to be 10 years old 2013 LS460 or LS460L RWD without air shock out of warranty any day. The only thing I would be worried about is the $3000 brake actuator which Lexus give you an extended warranty for repair. Other than that I wouldn't be worried about anything else. I had a 2008 LS460 and in the 2 years of owning it, I went to a mechanic once to take off 1 sway bar link with a stripped hex head bolt (my mistake). I did all other repairs and routine maintenance myself.

Nospinzone

Thanks for resurrecting an old thread JD. That was a very well written and detailed post. I'm sure we will hear from Steve (SW17LS) to weigh in.

Parrokeete

what would be a high quality proven rubber tire?

SW17LS

I missed this when it was posted a few months ago. Having had both the SWB and the LWB, get the LWB. Hands down.

As for the S Class vs the LS, I totally agree that the W223 generation S Class is suprisingly reliable. I would say its as reliable, if not more reliable than the LS460. There really aren't any things that are a common failure point, such as control arms or brake actuators, etc and the air suspension seems to be pretty robust.

The big difference is if things DO go wrong, the potential for cost is much, much higher because the S Class is so much more expensive to work on and there are way less options for who you can have work on it. You think Lexus dealers are expensive, oil change and tire rotation and new wipers on my S560 was $700. Just imagine the cost of...doing any sort of repair...so an independent mechanic is a must.

I've had my S560 for a year, and its been pretty much just like leasing a new Lexus.

BlazeViper

Interesting to see Lexus losing so many flagship owners and buyers to the competition. I can't say I'm surprised, the LS 500 is about as exciting as a camry.

mannye

As someone who is now on the hunt for a "new" LS 460, I'm finding the L to be pretty thin on the ground. In stark contrast to the 430 which was way easier to find. Not that there aren't a lot of 460L models for sale, but to find one that hasn't been previously crashed with low (under 70K) miles is, so far, impossible.

The most comprehensive website is, I think, cars.com and after a good hour of searching, I can only find L models (15,16 and 17) with either super high miles or at small dealers with low miles but all with "minor" crashes. I don't believe anything I read about "minor" crashes. A truly minor crash would likely not get reported. "Airbag not deployed" means little IMO, as I have been in a few of those where the front end was still toast after the "minor" crash.

I would welcome any suggestions for finding a good low mile RWD, conventional suspension, LS. Or I may just have to take back the '06 LS430 from my daughter and restore it. I would also love to hear if you guys think I'm being too picky or unreasonable. Frankly, the search for a decent one is exhausting and I'm about to just buy an early 2000's Lincoln Town Car and wait until this stupid chip shortage ends floods the market with cheap used cars in a year or two.