Driver's Seat Problem LS 460 Sport 2010
10-06-10, 04:13 AM
#17
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Defeat!
The Service customer manager at my dealer said that the technical people at Lexus national refused to let him try to add padding to the seat, this based on concerns that efforts to do so would interefere with or damage sensors in the seat that trigger airbag depoyment. Are there such sensors in the seats? This sounds fishy to me. Anyway, Service at this dealer has now given up on the problem, saying that there is nothing they can do. They also mentioned that, according to Lexus national, they ought not to have even replaced the seat in the first place trying to fix the problem -- something about VIN numbers being on each seat and "policy."
I realize that, at my age, I probably have less padding down there than some people, but this is a horrible result, one that I think has structural design roots. Of course, Lexus can't admit that because it would be too expensive to do so. Could the dealer take the car back and solve it that way? Sure, but it won't.
It is painful for me to drive this car every time I get in it. A nightmare! Law suit? Sounds like a reasonable course of action, but how does one demonstrate that it is a flaw in the car rather than a flaw in my behind? Get out of this car and into something else? Probably. Simpler to do this and just take my financial lumps. A great pity, though. What we have here is a betrayal of the customer satisfaction first principle that established Lexus as a great marque. That idea has been put aside now, it seems.
I realize that, at my age, I probably have less padding down there than some people, but this is a horrible result, one that I think has structural design roots. Of course, Lexus can't admit that because it would be too expensive to do so. Could the dealer take the car back and solve it that way? Sure, but it won't.
It is painful for me to drive this car every time I get in it. A nightmare! Law suit? Sounds like a reasonable course of action, but how does one demonstrate that it is a flaw in the car rather than a flaw in my behind? Get out of this car and into something else? Probably. Simpler to do this and just take my financial lumps. A great pity, though. What we have here is a betrayal of the customer satisfaction first principle that established Lexus as a great marque. That idea has been put aside now, it seems.
10-06-10, 06:29 AM
#18
Wow - that's a shocker! My dealership gave me NO problems on my old LS430seat - either trying different amounts/locations of padding and ultimately replacing the seat at no charge.
I honestly don't know if there are air bag trigger sensors in these seats or not but what difference would that make? I would think that this is something they could work around. Why not at least try?
You might want to try to talk to the General Manager of the dealership and if that doesn't work, go to Lexus USA Customer Service.
I honestly don't know if there are air bag trigger sensors in these seats or not but what difference would that make? I would think that this is something they could work around. Why not at least try?
You might want to try to talk to the General Manager of the dealership and if that doesn't work, go to Lexus USA Customer Service.
10-06-10, 10:33 AM
#19
first of all, seats have NO vin on them, so they can cut their BS talk
regarding sensors, i am very sure that on passenger seat, there are indeed sensors to sense the position of passenger and deploy airbags accordingly. but driver side, i have a question mark. i mean, if the car is moving, i surely hope there is a driver in an upright position...
regarding sensors, i am very sure that on passenger seat, there are indeed sensors to sense the position of passenger and deploy airbags accordingly. but driver side, i have a question mark. i mean, if the car is moving, i surely hope there is a driver in an upright position...
10-08-10, 10:07 PM
#20
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Continued
I am going to try to swap out of the car -- to an AWD probably -- which the dealer, without talking price, has said it will do. I give up on getting anything like a better solution here, which may have as much to do with my anatomy as the seat (and shows that I am not willing or able to go through some sort of process with Lexus USA, which I assume would be lengthy), though I find that hard to credit. I am disappointed because, aside from the seats, the Sport is a pretty fantastic car. And we now are thoroughly into 2011 models, though they seem no different, which affects number crunching. This is also affected by the fact that I had the summer tires switched out to all-weather. (VA had a big snow last year, as you may recall.) I have about 400 miles on the car. Who knows what my dealer will do for me? It all will start to go down tomorrow and I willl report further. Comments on whether the AWD is worth the loss of horsepower and the larger turning radius or any other factor -- worse handling, etc. -- compared to the RWD would be appreciated. Yes, I know: I should check other threads about these two models and will. And drive both for a good long while tomorrow. All the same, anything anyone has to offer in this regard here will be welcomed by me.
10-08-10, 11:30 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
Also unique are the sport seats in front, which are comfortable on the highway, yet provide terrific bolstering and support in turns.
It would be great if the (more flat) regular LS 460 AWD seats solve the issue, but a longer test period probably is necessary.
10-08-10, 11:51 PM
#23
ooops, really, i take it back then, sorry about that
but if it has more side bolstering, then it's not going to help on the butt / lower back area. and from my experience, the ls460 does have less cushion (feel) than ls430 or previous lexus i have owned
but if it has more side bolstering, then it's not going to help on the butt / lower back area. and from my experience, the ls460 does have less cushion (feel) than ls430 or previous lexus i have owned
10-09-10, 08:58 AM
#24
Pole Position
My conclusion: Lexus has made a terrible error with this seat, at least when, as is the case here, they insist on giving us cool air/hot air pipe that seems to be driven through the middle of the seat fore to aft. (Can anyone confirm that this is actuallly so as a matter of seat anatomy?) .
Know this doesn't solve YOUR problem but at least it gives you an idea of what's going on underneath the surface leather ...
10-10-10, 08:30 AM
#25
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End of Story
rominl is absolutely right on this. I drove the LS 460 AWD for about and hour and a half yesterday over all kinds of local roads, including the infamously awful surface of the parkway I travel each day to and from work (hoping that a swap would get rid of my problem with the seat). No luck. These seats are the way the are. The basic internal structure of the LS 460 seats, no matter the version, is identical. (Have to add that, as a loaner, I also have driven the hybrid HS 250 or whatever it is and found the same seat structure problem there.)
There was nothing to be gained from a swap, which my dealer was willing to do (though we never got to what financial adjustment would be made for the 527 miles I already show on my odometer, 127 of which were on the car when I bought it). What I would have gotten is just a somewhat more pliant suspension, which does not of itself do anything to relieve the seat problem, with noticeably duller and slower handling and a less responsive throttle. At bottom, to turn a phrase, it is my anatomy combined with the seat frame structure that is responsible for this. I do not think I am so unique in my anatomy. (Let those who are losing their you-know-whats be warned!)
I am keeping the Sport. I acquired another, cheaper seat pillow with a carve-out for the tail bone yesterday to see what that would do. Better than the air pillow and it helps. But what a humiliation!
It is obvious that Lexus must figure out how to make a better seat, one that pleases rather than damages those of us who have thinner behinds. Enough with the ever-changing and now near-incomprehensible electronic gizmos. Comfort is key for this brand. I have yet to try the latest BMW 5 and 7 series and their seats, which many have praised, but with the new 535 ix and the 740i (no ix for that at the moment), one cheaper than the Sport and the other not a huge amount more, and both adding in several years of "free" maintenance as opposed to Lexus's heavy charges in that area, these represent a serious threat. Lexus had better pick up its game.
There was nothing to be gained from a swap, which my dealer was willing to do (though we never got to what financial adjustment would be made for the 527 miles I already show on my odometer, 127 of which were on the car when I bought it). What I would have gotten is just a somewhat more pliant suspension, which does not of itself do anything to relieve the seat problem, with noticeably duller and slower handling and a less responsive throttle. At bottom, to turn a phrase, it is my anatomy combined with the seat frame structure that is responsible for this. I do not think I am so unique in my anatomy. (Let those who are losing their you-know-whats be warned!)
I am keeping the Sport. I acquired another, cheaper seat pillow with a carve-out for the tail bone yesterday to see what that would do. Better than the air pillow and it helps. But what a humiliation!
It is obvious that Lexus must figure out how to make a better seat, one that pleases rather than damages those of us who have thinner behinds. Enough with the ever-changing and now near-incomprehensible electronic gizmos. Comfort is key for this brand. I have yet to try the latest BMW 5 and 7 series and their seats, which many have praised, but with the new 535 ix and the 740i (no ix for that at the moment), one cheaper than the Sport and the other not a huge amount more, and both adding in several years of "free" maintenance as opposed to Lexus's heavy charges in that area, these represent a serious threat. Lexus had better pick up its game.
Last edited by aklein2; 10-10-10 at 08:37 AM.
10-10-10, 07:13 PM
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For what it's worth, I am 29 and have a 2010 LS AWD, and I find the driver's seat to be terribly uncomfortable. I feel like the padding is really poor and wears out quickly. After only 5000 miles, there is a large indentation where my 155 pound rear end is usually planted. I have tried adjusting the seat every which way, but I still end up with a sore rear end and lower back.
On an unrelated note, but one still relating to comfort, I find the angle of the accelerator pedal to be very straining to my ankle - I really have to bend my foot backwards towards my ankle/shin to get my foot to rest on the pedal. AND, I feel like the brake pedal is too high off the floor and too far away from the accelerator. Resting my heel on the floor, I feel I can barely get any traction on the brake pedal, so I have to just hold my foot up in the air and constantly move it back and forth between the two pedals. But back to the issue of seat comfort...
On an unrelated note, but one still relating to comfort, I find the angle of the accelerator pedal to be very straining to my ankle - I really have to bend my foot backwards towards my ankle/shin to get my foot to rest on the pedal. AND, I feel like the brake pedal is too high off the floor and too far away from the accelerator. Resting my heel on the floor, I feel I can barely get any traction on the brake pedal, so I have to just hold my foot up in the air and constantly move it back and forth between the two pedals. But back to the issue of seat comfort...
10-11-10, 11:12 AM
#27
On an unrelated note, but one still relating to comfort, I find the angle of the accelerator pedal to be very straining to my ankle - I really have to bend my foot backwards towards my ankle/shin to get my foot to rest on the pedal. AND, I feel like the brake pedal is too high off the floor and too far away from the accelerator. Resting my heel on the floor, I feel I can barely get any traction on the brake pedal, so I have to just hold my foot up in the air and constantly move it back and forth between the two pedals. But back to the issue of seat comfort...
10-11-10, 03:50 PM
#28
Pole Position
