Yet Another "My 'New' 2008 LS460L" Thread (LONG)
06-22-11, 07:21 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Yet Another "My 'New' 2008 LS460L" Thread (LONG)
I’ve been eager to announce the arrival of this baby, which is way overdue! But, I wanted to share all the details, and I’ve been crazy busy, so I thought I’d hold off until I could write away (people in the GS, GX and LX forums know I’m not a person of few words)…
Apologies in advance for the tome. CliffsNotes are at the end.
Background: Lots of Lousy Cars
So the one-car thing lasted us a year, and we decided to look for a second car. My heart was set on an LS (used, of course), and the search lasted a month or so. My goal was to get a 2008: likely to be under warranty with many of the bugs in the 2007 model fixed (hoping for that, anyway) and a bit pricier than the 2007 but not as much as 2009.
My search included Manheim auctions, local/nearby dealerships (Lexus and otherwise), AutoTrader and eBay. It was early March, and there was plenty of supply. Prices were a mixed bag, but quality was remarkably lousy, even for CPO vehicles.
While generally speaking, one would expect auction vehicles to have some issues here and there, I was actually shocked at the poor quality of the majority of the vehicles I saw. At the Lexus dealerships, the story was not much different. Among other things, I saw certified pre-owned LS cars with dings galore, one with a rear bumper that was partially hanging (all this after it was already certified) and another one that was loaded with sand (trunk, carpets and seats) that the dealer could not bother to vacuum before taking pictures. It was that bad at some of the local Lexus dealers (not the one I service at, for the record).
Based on past experiences for me and others I know, I have never relied or believed too much in CPO programs. To me, the value of CPO is mainly the extra warranty, as I have seen enough overlooked problems and mediocre certification jobs to just not trust all dealerships to do a thorough job. In other words, in my opinion, a lousy car pre-CPO will continue to be so after in most cases, and a good used car will continue to be good. So, while I remained open to the idea, the quality of the CPO cars in my area was depressing, and it was particularly shocking to see the kinds of things that they were letting slide, issues they could have addressed with a couple $100 prior to certifying.
Some Progress…
I kept on looking, and somehow ended up focusing on the Dallas market, looking at vehicles at Sewell Lexus. I did not want another black car, but seriously considered one at Sewell that was fully loaded (including PCS and radar cruise control). It had 48,000 miles, and while it seemed to be in ok shape, I was not convinced based on some of the reconditioning items on their list. In their defense, they did seem to do a thorough job certifying it and were very forthright in answering all my questions, but I was just not comfortable.
Then, this other car popped up one Friday afternoon on eBay at a Jaguar dealership in TX. Not only did it have all the options I wanted (and more!), but also, it was the exact color combo I wanted: Black Sapphire Pearl with black interior. Interestingly, BSP was actually our first choice color on the GS back in 2007, but we had to settle with Obsidian at the time. This car had 40,000 miles.
The Decision
This is when I had to do some serious thinking… I checked the car’s service history, and it looked great. I also spoke with the salesman a few times over the course of a couple of days, asking a lot of questions about the vehicle’s condition, brakes, tires, etc. I was assured that anything that was a wear-and tear item would be fine for a long time.
After more thinking, I finally made an offer late one morning. The exchange took a whole day (you’ve got to love this process), but by early evening, we were done, and it was time to take care of all the paperwork and other logistics (most of which I will skip in the spirit of not being banned
).
The Car Arrives…
I would have loved to fly and drive the car back, but 1,500 miles was just too far. Instead, we had the car shipped in an enclosed 2-car carrier. The driver was a very fine older gentleman from Atlanta who was simply meticulous in his handling. I was very pleased with every part of this process. In fact, after we were done with the business part, we ended up having a long conversation. I would not hesitate to use his services again.
Overall, the car was in the condition I expected (pretty good). It had a few chips and light scratches, all of which I had discussed previously with the salesman. There is not a single door ding, and the vehicle was religiously serviced at a Lexus dealership. I did deliver the car to my Lexus dealership for a few things, including an oil change (even though the car had already had its 40k mile service, the selling dealership changed the oil and put the wrong kind, 5W30), the B-pillar TSIB, a brake fluid change, wheel balancing (the car had a slight shimmy on the highway) and a state inspection.
The Unexpected Hiccups: Lots of Details Here... and Some Tangents Too
Unfortunately, there were a few surprises. The car needed tires (two, actually, but I wasn’t about to replace those with the same crappy overpriced Bridgestones), as they were extremely worn on the edge, even though they had a decent amount of tread in the middle. Also, while the brake pads indeed had plenty of thickness (I had tried to get numbers from the selling dealership to no avail), the lateral runout of the rotors was slightly off, enough to cause some pulsation. Lastly, one wheel was slightly bent. All these were certainly unexpected surprises (especially the tires and brakes, given my pointed questions to the dealership to that effect), but I guess that’s what one gets when shopping sight unseen.
In my opinion, even though the car itself is in great condition and as-advertised by most measures, the service department at the selling dealership did not do a thorough job. They claimed the brakes were fine, and although the pads are, the rotors were not. They rebalanced the tires, but it was a poor rebalancing job. And the tires, well, that has been covered in detail… They had also done an alignment to address the inner wear issue, and the car was definitely pulling to the right when I got it.
While I recognize that things will never be perfect in a used car, the tire situation was unacceptable. I had a lengthy exchange with the selling dealership, which for a short period tried to wash its hands of this (and told me my dealership was just trying to sell me tires). Funny, at that time, they also finally decided to produce the detailed paperwork from their service department’s evaluation of the car, which I had asked for repeatedly. Their assessment of the tires was the exact same as the assessment by my dealership, except these guys decided to let it be and just align the car.
I saw the tires first hand and am also knowledgeable enough about cars to not buy everything I am told. More importantly, I have a long-standing relationship with my dealership: not only with the business, but also with individuals there, and they are much better than the people at the selling dealership were giving them credit for.
In the end, even though the selling dealership never acknowledged any wrongdoing (or perhaps, I should say poor workmanship, as I do not consider them to be bad people to engage in “wrongdoing” in the traditional sense), they did offer a token amount towards the replacement of the tires. I spoke with that dealership’s General Manager, and while we agreed to disagree on the specifics, I did appreciate his gesture. They are part of a large family of luxury car dealerships in TX and actually have two Lexus stores. This is just about the only way I could ever purchase a vehicle out of state without seeing it.
I will never understand why some dealerships, and in particular, many car salespeople, always seem to take the easy way out and give bogus or incomplete answers to basic questions when the details are within reach (e.g., why not tell me the tread depth when I asked instead of telling me “the tires have plenty of life”). On a side note, something similar happened with the title and registration papers. My ridiculous state is the only (or one of the few) state that does not allow temporary plates. Consequently, in order to insure the car, it needed to be registered in MA, and I needed to get those papers.
I communicated this multiple times to my salesman and got some bogus-sounding answer about the DMV in TX needing to produce some papers, etc., something that would’ve taken (according to them) until several days after the scheduled arrival of the LS. That story did not make any sense, and I was not about to risk having an uninsured LS at my house. Unsatisfied with the selling dealership's response, I called the TX DMV with the VIN, and lo and behold, they confirmed that there was absolutely NOTHING they needed to do, and that the car could be transferred to me without any issue.
I communicated this to the dealership and made it clear that it was unacceptable to have this car uninsured, and all of a sudden it all became possible provided I could show them that my check for the down payment had cleared. Seriously? Couldn’t we have started there and made this easier?
The icing on the cake came when my insurance agent received all the paperwork to register the car, and the check for MA sales tax and registration fees (funds the dealership had collected from me) was missing (honest mistake that they addressed immediately, but I wasn’t happy at the time)!!
I don’t want to seem like I am coming down too hard or unfairly on the selling dealership. I really did not experience anything that smelled of questionable ethics. To me, the issues boiled down to a sub-par job done by the service department and constant miscommunication from the salesman. Most of the surprises would have been avoided had he been more forthright in answering my questions. As I was saying above, this has consistently been a source of frustration for me when buying a car. My first new Lexus purchase experience back in '04 was fantastic, but the others have not been much better than this – plenty of clueless Lexus salespeople out there…
The Bottom Line
My Lexus dealership did a great job with the car on all fronts. I bought a take-off replacement wheel of eBay for a great price for them to install. They resurfaced the brake rotors at no charge to me. As always, they took great care of me.
In any case, without further due, below are a few pictures of the car when delivered, followed by a few shots after detailing (with Zaino products, of course!). The only thing I wish this car had is the 19” 5-spoke Touring wheels, but the car budget is all tapped out (particularly in light of the unexpected expenses), and I don't want to deal with a divorce, if you know what I mean
. So, every day I am learning to love the 18” wheels more and more!
The pinstripe, which the minute I saw it on pictures I thought had to go, is actually done quite tastefully: the color matches the car well, and the “L” is a very nice touch, so it is staying for now. Everyone who sees it compliments it. It seems like this is commonly offered at Sewell, where the car was purchased by the original owner.
While the car went through the detailing “process” (it usually takes me a week or two of working on-and-off with a baby in the house), I also attempted to fix some poorly touched-up chips (the touch-up paint actually looked like tree sap). Langka came to the rescue, though there was only so much to be done with some of these blemishes, which appeared to be caused by acid rain.
The Unexpected – Part 2
After the car sat in my garage for two weeks… well, you know where this is going… I had always wondered how a Lexus with push-button start would behave if the battery was low and I found out! This was the day before Memorial Day. My Husky charger that I bought at Home Depot five years ago and never used came to the rescue (handy Engine Start mode that gives the battery a 60A jolt), and my dealership opens on Sundays, so I was treated to a new battery.
The Verdict
I am delighted with this car. The ride is extremely comfortable, and the 4.6L puts out great power in conjunction with a great exhaust note. The 8-speed transmission is very smooth and a great contributor to fuel economy. On top of this, the interior is simply enormous. I was sitting in the back seat the other day conditioning the leather and playing with the rear seats (this car has the upgraded rear seat package, one step short of the Executive Seating), and it’s ridiculously spacious back there! I need more time to test everything on the car (I don’t drive it every day), but I am like a kid with a new toy.
I look forward to sharing more thoughts on it down the road (literally!).
Other Issues/Next Steps
After my dealer turned the rotors, the brakes felt great. However, in a matter of 400 miles, the pulsation returned. The rotors have been replaced, and it is all good now.
The car does have the dreaded wind noise (though it sounds like a mild case), and I will most definitely apply the jmcraney fix. That was an impressive and thorough troubleshooting effort and fix on his part.
Lastly, a Platinum Warranty is likely in the cards…
_________________________________________________________
CliffsNotes
After a year with only one car, we needed a second car. I always wanted an LS. Quality of auction and local vehicles was lousy, so I looked nationwide and picked up a 2008 LS460L out of state. The car is in great shape and is the color I wanted. Some things that needed to be done were taken care of by my local dealership, and the car has now received the Zaino treatment, and I am
.
_________________________________________________________
Apologies in advance for the tome. CliffsNotes are at the end.
Background: Lots of Lousy Cars
So the one-car thing lasted us a year, and we decided to look for a second car. My heart was set on an LS (used, of course), and the search lasted a month or so. My goal was to get a 2008: likely to be under warranty with many of the bugs in the 2007 model fixed (hoping for that, anyway) and a bit pricier than the 2007 but not as much as 2009.
My search included Manheim auctions, local/nearby dealerships (Lexus and otherwise), AutoTrader and eBay. It was early March, and there was plenty of supply. Prices were a mixed bag, but quality was remarkably lousy, even for CPO vehicles.
While generally speaking, one would expect auction vehicles to have some issues here and there, I was actually shocked at the poor quality of the majority of the vehicles I saw. At the Lexus dealerships, the story was not much different. Among other things, I saw certified pre-owned LS cars with dings galore, one with a rear bumper that was partially hanging (all this after it was already certified) and another one that was loaded with sand (trunk, carpets and seats) that the dealer could not bother to vacuum before taking pictures. It was that bad at some of the local Lexus dealers (not the one I service at, for the record).
Based on past experiences for me and others I know, I have never relied or believed too much in CPO programs. To me, the value of CPO is mainly the extra warranty, as I have seen enough overlooked problems and mediocre certification jobs to just not trust all dealerships to do a thorough job. In other words, in my opinion, a lousy car pre-CPO will continue to be so after in most cases, and a good used car will continue to be good. So, while I remained open to the idea, the quality of the CPO cars in my area was depressing, and it was particularly shocking to see the kinds of things that they were letting slide, issues they could have addressed with a couple $100 prior to certifying.
Some Progress…
I kept on looking, and somehow ended up focusing on the Dallas market, looking at vehicles at Sewell Lexus. I did not want another black car, but seriously considered one at Sewell that was fully loaded (including PCS and radar cruise control). It had 48,000 miles, and while it seemed to be in ok shape, I was not convinced based on some of the reconditioning items on their list. In their defense, they did seem to do a thorough job certifying it and were very forthright in answering all my questions, but I was just not comfortable.
Then, this other car popped up one Friday afternoon on eBay at a Jaguar dealership in TX. Not only did it have all the options I wanted (and more!), but also, it was the exact color combo I wanted: Black Sapphire Pearl with black interior. Interestingly, BSP was actually our first choice color on the GS back in 2007, but we had to settle with Obsidian at the time. This car had 40,000 miles.
The Decision
This is when I had to do some serious thinking… I checked the car’s service history, and it looked great. I also spoke with the salesman a few times over the course of a couple of days, asking a lot of questions about the vehicle’s condition, brakes, tires, etc. I was assured that anything that was a wear-and tear item would be fine for a long time.
After more thinking, I finally made an offer late one morning. The exchange took a whole day (you’ve got to love this process), but by early evening, we were done, and it was time to take care of all the paperwork and other logistics (most of which I will skip in the spirit of not being banned
). The Car Arrives…
I would have loved to fly and drive the car back, but 1,500 miles was just too far. Instead, we had the car shipped in an enclosed 2-car carrier. The driver was a very fine older gentleman from Atlanta who was simply meticulous in his handling. I was very pleased with every part of this process. In fact, after we were done with the business part, we ended up having a long conversation. I would not hesitate to use his services again.
Overall, the car was in the condition I expected (pretty good). It had a few chips and light scratches, all of which I had discussed previously with the salesman. There is not a single door ding, and the vehicle was religiously serviced at a Lexus dealership. I did deliver the car to my Lexus dealership for a few things, including an oil change (even though the car had already had its 40k mile service, the selling dealership changed the oil and put the wrong kind, 5W30), the B-pillar TSIB, a brake fluid change, wheel balancing (the car had a slight shimmy on the highway) and a state inspection.
The Unexpected Hiccups: Lots of Details Here... and Some Tangents Too
Unfortunately, there were a few surprises. The car needed tires (two, actually, but I wasn’t about to replace those with the same crappy overpriced Bridgestones), as they were extremely worn on the edge, even though they had a decent amount of tread in the middle. Also, while the brake pads indeed had plenty of thickness (I had tried to get numbers from the selling dealership to no avail), the lateral runout of the rotors was slightly off, enough to cause some pulsation. Lastly, one wheel was slightly bent. All these were certainly unexpected surprises (especially the tires and brakes, given my pointed questions to the dealership to that effect), but I guess that’s what one gets when shopping sight unseen.
In my opinion, even though the car itself is in great condition and as-advertised by most measures, the service department at the selling dealership did not do a thorough job. They claimed the brakes were fine, and although the pads are, the rotors were not. They rebalanced the tires, but it was a poor rebalancing job. And the tires, well, that has been covered in detail… They had also done an alignment to address the inner wear issue, and the car was definitely pulling to the right when I got it.
While I recognize that things will never be perfect in a used car, the tire situation was unacceptable. I had a lengthy exchange with the selling dealership, which for a short period tried to wash its hands of this (and told me my dealership was just trying to sell me tires). Funny, at that time, they also finally decided to produce the detailed paperwork from their service department’s evaluation of the car, which I had asked for repeatedly. Their assessment of the tires was the exact same as the assessment by my dealership, except these guys decided to let it be and just align the car.
I saw the tires first hand and am also knowledgeable enough about cars to not buy everything I am told. More importantly, I have a long-standing relationship with my dealership: not only with the business, but also with individuals there, and they are much better than the people at the selling dealership were giving them credit for.
In the end, even though the selling dealership never acknowledged any wrongdoing (or perhaps, I should say poor workmanship, as I do not consider them to be bad people to engage in “wrongdoing” in the traditional sense), they did offer a token amount towards the replacement of the tires. I spoke with that dealership’s General Manager, and while we agreed to disagree on the specifics, I did appreciate his gesture. They are part of a large family of luxury car dealerships in TX and actually have two Lexus stores. This is just about the only way I could ever purchase a vehicle out of state without seeing it.
I will never understand why some dealerships, and in particular, many car salespeople, always seem to take the easy way out and give bogus or incomplete answers to basic questions when the details are within reach (e.g., why not tell me the tread depth when I asked instead of telling me “the tires have plenty of life”). On a side note, something similar happened with the title and registration papers. My ridiculous state is the only (or one of the few) state that does not allow temporary plates. Consequently, in order to insure the car, it needed to be registered in MA, and I needed to get those papers.
I communicated this multiple times to my salesman and got some bogus-sounding answer about the DMV in TX needing to produce some papers, etc., something that would’ve taken (according to them) until several days after the scheduled arrival of the LS. That story did not make any sense, and I was not about to risk having an uninsured LS at my house. Unsatisfied with the selling dealership's response, I called the TX DMV with the VIN, and lo and behold, they confirmed that there was absolutely NOTHING they needed to do, and that the car could be transferred to me without any issue.
I communicated this to the dealership and made it clear that it was unacceptable to have this car uninsured, and all of a sudden it all became possible provided I could show them that my check for the down payment had cleared. Seriously? Couldn’t we have started there and made this easier?
The icing on the cake came when my insurance agent received all the paperwork to register the car, and the check for MA sales tax and registration fees (funds the dealership had collected from me) was missing (honest mistake that they addressed immediately, but I wasn’t happy at the time)!!I don’t want to seem like I am coming down too hard or unfairly on the selling dealership. I really did not experience anything that smelled of questionable ethics. To me, the issues boiled down to a sub-par job done by the service department and constant miscommunication from the salesman. Most of the surprises would have been avoided had he been more forthright in answering my questions. As I was saying above, this has consistently been a source of frustration for me when buying a car. My first new Lexus purchase experience back in '04 was fantastic, but the others have not been much better than this – plenty of clueless Lexus salespeople out there…
The Bottom Line
My Lexus dealership did a great job with the car on all fronts. I bought a take-off replacement wheel of eBay for a great price for them to install. They resurfaced the brake rotors at no charge to me. As always, they took great care of me.
In any case, without further due, below are a few pictures of the car when delivered, followed by a few shots after detailing (with Zaino products, of course!). The only thing I wish this car had is the 19” 5-spoke Touring wheels, but the car budget is all tapped out (particularly in light of the unexpected expenses), and I don't want to deal with a divorce, if you know what I mean
. So, every day I am learning to love the 18” wheels more and more!The pinstripe, which the minute I saw it on pictures I thought had to go, is actually done quite tastefully: the color matches the car well, and the “L” is a very nice touch, so it is staying for now. Everyone who sees it compliments it. It seems like this is commonly offered at Sewell, where the car was purchased by the original owner.
While the car went through the detailing “process” (it usually takes me a week or two of working on-and-off with a baby in the house), I also attempted to fix some poorly touched-up chips (the touch-up paint actually looked like tree sap). Langka came to the rescue, though there was only so much to be done with some of these blemishes, which appeared to be caused by acid rain.
The Unexpected – Part 2
After the car sat in my garage for two weeks… well, you know where this is going… I had always wondered how a Lexus with push-button start would behave if the battery was low and I found out! This was the day before Memorial Day. My Husky charger that I bought at Home Depot five years ago and never used came to the rescue (handy Engine Start mode that gives the battery a 60A jolt), and my dealership opens on Sundays, so I was treated to a new battery.
The Verdict
I am delighted with this car. The ride is extremely comfortable, and the 4.6L puts out great power in conjunction with a great exhaust note. The 8-speed transmission is very smooth and a great contributor to fuel economy. On top of this, the interior is simply enormous. I was sitting in the back seat the other day conditioning the leather and playing with the rear seats (this car has the upgraded rear seat package, one step short of the Executive Seating), and it’s ridiculously spacious back there! I need more time to test everything on the car (I don’t drive it every day), but I am like a kid with a new toy.
I look forward to sharing more thoughts on it down the road (literally!).
Other Issues/Next Steps
After my dealer turned the rotors, the brakes felt great. However, in a matter of 400 miles, the pulsation returned. The rotors have been replaced, and it is all good now.
The car does have the dreaded wind noise (though it sounds like a mild case), and I will most definitely apply the jmcraney fix. That was an impressive and thorough troubleshooting effort and fix on his part.
Lastly, a Platinum Warranty is likely in the cards…
_________________________________________________________
CliffsNotes
After a year with only one car, we needed a second car. I always wanted an LS. Quality of auction and local vehicles was lousy, so I looked nationwide and picked up a 2008 LS460L out of state. The car is in great shape and is the color I wanted. Some things that needed to be done were taken care of by my local dealership, and the car has now received the Zaino treatment, and I am
._________________________________________________________
Last edited by caha14; 08-05-11 at 07:58 AM.
06-22-11, 07:40 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
06-22-11, 09:21 PM
#4
thanks for sharing. I couldn't sign off on the car without a test drive so I made the 890miles trip from IL back home to NY. 4months of searching, 3 LSs that got away. Some "unexpected" (minor rock chips, cheap clear bra, annoying rattles). Gotta do a bunch of TSIBs. Already got the Platinum warranty. Enjoying my SGM on black SWB LS w/ML,comf+ for 3months now and happy i didn't pull a trigger on a local audi a8.
BTW: what do you use on leather?
BTW: what do you use on leather?
06-23-11, 04:03 AM
#5
Lexus Champion
i only use "lex"ol...(jus realized the pun).. but lexol leather cleaner & conditioner work awesome...leather feels like brand new w/o the overpowering odor of other brands
06-23-11, 04:06 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
thanks for sharing. I couldn't sign off on the car without a test drive so I made the 890miles trip from IL back home to NY. 4months of searching, 3 LSs that got away. Some "unexpected" (minor rock chips, cheap clear bra, annoying rattles). Gotta do a bunch of TSIBs. Already got the Platinum warranty. Enjoying my SGM on black SWB LS w/ML,comf+ for 3months now and happy i didn't pull a trigger on a local audi a8.
BTW: what do you use on leather?
BTW: what do you use on leather?
I wish my car had a bra (even a cheap one I could replace). It doesn't, so at this point I'll just live with the chips unless I want to repaint the front and wrap it (which would bring up that divorce thing again if I spend any more on this car). Is yours yellowing or having any other issues?
On the leather, I use Zaino Leather-In-A-Bottle. I used to use Lexol, which I liked a lot, and tried the Zaino product for the first time back in 2004 (on the GX) and have never gone back. For cleaning, I also use Zaino Leather Cleaner, which I find works very effectively (gets the denim stains of our truck's beige seats off with ease).
06-23-11, 09:35 AM
#7
Pole Position
Welcome to the finest mass production vehicle ever produced!
Trending Topics
06-23-11, 01:54 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Thank you all, very much! It feels like I'm slowly moving around from forum to forum on CL!
06-23-11, 01:58 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
.New wheels = Grounds for divorce at this point...
06-23-11, 02:11 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thank you! Would love a set of the 19" OEM 5-spoke wheels. If I had waited three weeks instead of replacing my tires, I would have been able to nail a full set with rubber and all for $1,300 on eBay, not much more than what the new tires, rim replacement and alignment all cost. But, it was too late, and at this point that's not in the budget, so I'm learning to love the 18" wheels more and more every day .
New wheels = Grounds for divorce at this point...
.New wheels = Grounds for divorce at this point...
06-23-11, 02:15 PM
#14
Hey caha, I read the whole book. It kept me in suspense beginning to end. I can't wait for the movie!
So I'm trying to figure out if you are 30 miles from Northboro and 4 miles from another dealer, which dealer that could be ...... Beverly, Watertown, Norwood, Warwick, even Springfield ..... all could fit.
At any rate, welcome to the Club!
So I'm trying to figure out if you are 30 miles from Northboro and 4 miles from another dealer, which dealer that could be ...... Beverly, Watertown, Norwood, Warwick, even Springfield ..... all could fit.
At any rate, welcome to the Club!
06-23-11, 02:25 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Hey caha, I read the whole book. It kept me in suspense beginning to end. I can't wait for the movie!
So I'm trying to figure out if you are 30 miles from Northboro and 4 miles from another dealer, which dealer that could be ...... Beverly, Watertown, Norwood, Warwick, even Springfield ..... all could fit.
At any rate, welcome to the Club!
So I'm trying to figure out if you are 30 miles from Northboro and 4 miles from another dealer, which dealer that could be ...... Beverly, Watertown, Norwood, Warwick, even Springfield ..... all could fit.
At any rate, welcome to the Club!
.Watertown is the winner on your list...