2013 LS 460. My brief test drive and impression
05-18-13, 06:13 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Well, you gentlemen are quite the forgiving... I find it utterly insulting that Lexus is allowing their top of the line LS to be confused for an ES. While the ES is awesome too, it's my wife's car. There should be no confusion, however fleeting, of whether that new Lexus is the ES, GS, or LS. It irks me so. I had a relative get in my car and say, "you know this is a fancy Camry right?" I think I almost had a stroke. No, It's an LS also known as the LS. Yeah, it used to be a Celsior (coolest of all time) but even in Japan, it's now the LS.
........and yes I know this is a dead thread. I just had to vent this.
........and yes I know this is a dead thread. I just had to vent this.
05-18-13, 08:36 PM
#32
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As for driving impressions and evolution I would expect little or no change in the Lux segment. Lexus is consistently described as boring and the reason is that every thing operates well and predictable. There is just nothing unusual going on. Styling is what it is. Software integration is mostly BS in any Lux line as they have failed to understand the personal driver integration. So why is this? My observation has been the Lux market doesn;t really care.
What sets Lexus apart from other Lux brands is the operating cost. Styling and feature function is all subjective but the real cost of operation is not.
Does BMW, MB and Jaguar offer anything close to Lexus in this area? One of my clients owns a high end Euro Lux dealership, MB and BMW. The operating costs are not insignificant but most are lease so everything is covered. But the used euro lux market market is negatively impacting the owner in ownership and this effects the brands image and reputation. $4500 and $10,000 invoices are not unusual. And these are frequent.
Another back test on the value Lexus brings to market is in extended warranty. Get a quote for each lux and compare. The policy writer is not doing this for nothing and each policy reflects their experience based on hard data just what holds up and what make and model is going to cost them.
This back test method is mostly ignored but these companies know where they are going to make money and how you the consumer can benefit. If you are of the mindset money is of no consequence then buy a Rolls Royce and enjoy that ride.
I am hoping the 2015 LS will be a market leader again and am looking at purchasing in that time frame.
What sets Lexus apart from other Lux brands is the operating cost. Styling and feature function is all subjective but the real cost of operation is not.
Does BMW, MB and Jaguar offer anything close to Lexus in this area? One of my clients owns a high end Euro Lux dealership, MB and BMW. The operating costs are not insignificant but most are lease so everything is covered. But the used euro lux market market is negatively impacting the owner in ownership and this effects the brands image and reputation. $4500 and $10,000 invoices are not unusual. And these are frequent.
Another back test on the value Lexus brings to market is in extended warranty. Get a quote for each lux and compare. The policy writer is not doing this for nothing and each policy reflects their experience based on hard data just what holds up and what make and model is going to cost them.
This back test method is mostly ignored but these companies know where they are going to make money and how you the consumer can benefit. If you are of the mindset money is of no consequence then buy a Rolls Royce and enjoy that ride.
I am hoping the 2015 LS will be a market leader again and am looking at purchasing in that time frame.
05-18-13, 09:40 PM
#33
yeah the 2014 S Class looks incredible. They really raised the bar. I can't wait to see Lexus' response to MB's new Magic Body Control. I need that technology in my life.
05-19-13, 07:43 AM
#34
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For the first time ever, I think, Consumer Reports listed a Lexus LS (2012 model) as a "used car to avoid" because of greater than average reliability complaints. I'm considering buying a 2013 LS to replace my 2003 LS and a complaint about LS reliability is a concern. Anybody having problems with a 2012 LS?
05-19-13, 08:18 AM
#35
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Thread Starter
As for driving impressions and evolution I would expect little or no change in the Lux segment. Lexus is consistently described as boring and the reason is that every thing operates well and predictable. There is just nothing unusual going on. Styling is what it is. Software integration is mostly BS in any Lux line as they have failed to understand the personal driver integration. So why is this? My observation has been the Lux market doesn;t really care.
What sets Lexus apart from other Lux brands is the operating cost. Styling and feature function is all subjective but the real cost of operation is not.
Does BMW, MB and Jaguar offer anything close to Lexus in this area? One of my clients owns a high end Euro Lux dealership, MB and BMW. The operating costs are not insignificant but most are lease so everything is covered. But the used euro lux market market is negatively impacting the owner in ownership and this effects the brands image and reputation. $4500 and $10,000 invoices are not unusual. And these are frequent.
Another back test on the value Lexus brings to market is in extended warranty. Get a quote for each lux and compare. The policy writer is not doing this for nothing and each policy reflects their experience based on hard data just what holds up and what make and model is going to cost them.
This back test method is mostly ignored but these companies know where they are going to make money and how you the consumer can benefit. If you are of the mindset money is of no consequence then buy a Rolls Royce and enjoy that ride.
I am hoping the 2015 LS will be a market leader again and am looking at purchasing in that time frame.
What sets Lexus apart from other Lux brands is the operating cost. Styling and feature function is all subjective but the real cost of operation is not.
Does BMW, MB and Jaguar offer anything close to Lexus in this area? One of my clients owns a high end Euro Lux dealership, MB and BMW. The operating costs are not insignificant but most are lease so everything is covered. But the used euro lux market market is negatively impacting the owner in ownership and this effects the brands image and reputation. $4500 and $10,000 invoices are not unusual. And these are frequent.
Another back test on the value Lexus brings to market is in extended warranty. Get a quote for each lux and compare. The policy writer is not doing this for nothing and each policy reflects their experience based on hard data just what holds up and what make and model is going to cost them.
This back test method is mostly ignored but these companies know where they are going to make money and how you the consumer can benefit. If you are of the mindset money is of no consequence then buy a Rolls Royce and enjoy that ride.
I am hoping the 2015 LS will be a market leader again and am looking at purchasing in that time frame.
My first LS, I used for 250,000 miles. Yes, it did need repairs (suspension) but no major repairs. Since I don't keep the cars beyond 60,000 miles, I cant say much about the expensive repair costs. The audi's/C class/ Jag all had under 20,000 miles.. and they were all perfect. Perhaps I had to take the lexuses in, on occasion for warranty work but the german cars didn't need any warranty work either. The s class came with a failed navigation system, at delivery. lol.
I agree.. Lexus is a fantastic car.. occasionally boring. I just sold my 600hl (with regret). Went to drive the jag xjl.. Nice car.. but I felt 600hl was superior. My wife asked.. Why not buy another LS? My answer : "Styling".. It is my personal taste/observation - the lexus grill is downright ugly! This is a bad stylistic choice by lexus - just my 2 cents.. I Like the Jag xjl the best and next, the Audi A8. Not a fan of the bmw 7. S class is always a classic
05-19-13, 10:21 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
For the first time ever, I think, Consumer Reports listed a Lexus LS (2012 model) as a "used car to avoid" because of greater than average reliability complaints. I'm considering buying a 2013 LS to replace my 2003 LS and a complaint about LS reliability is a concern. Anybody having problems with a 2012 LS?
I would buy a 2013 without hesitation as to reliability.
05-19-13, 12:53 PM
#37
There was some reason for that, theres nothing mechanically different between a 2012 and a 2011 or 2010, even a, 09, 08 or 07 really. So why would the 2012 be singled out and not the other years? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I would buy a 2013 without hesitation as to reliability.
I would buy a 2013 without hesitation as to reliability.
05-19-13, 12:58 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
I remember reading somewhere that there was one issue that they kept getting responses about and it being something about infotainment.
I'm just illustrating the need to interpret the logic behind these findings for yourself. Someone might choose to buy a 2011 over a 2012 due to that data and logically that doesn't make any sense.
I'm just illustrating the need to interpret the logic behind these findings for yourself. Someone might choose to buy a 2011 over a 2012 due to that data and logically that doesn't make any sense.
05-19-13, 04:47 PM
#39
For the first time ever, I think, Consumer Reports listed a Lexus LS (2012 model) as a "used car to avoid" because of greater than average reliability complaints. I'm considering buying a 2013 LS to replace my 2003 LS and a complaint about LS reliability is a concern. Anybody having problems with a 2012 LS?
I bought an LS LWB model in July 2012. No issues whatsoever except for a crappy ML audio system. This car replaced a 2008 SWB that had several things fixed on it. It rode very well, but had many issues - wind noise repairs, brake actuator replaced and brake rotors kept warping.
The 2012 in contrast has had zero issues.
05-19-13, 08:28 PM
#40
Driver School Candidate
Consumer Reports does a through testing of its vehicles and is an authoritative source of information. Net: The 2007 LS got an unprecedented rating of 99 out of 100! Way ahead of everything else.
Fast forward to the 2013 LS. Only a 92 rating. More than a dozen cars now rated higher. Reason - the new mouse-like controller.
Even Car and Driver have blasted the mouse as "The nadir in infotainment systems" WOW!
No wonder so many on this forum are giving the 2013 LS a miss.
Fast forward to the 2013 LS. Only a 92 rating. More than a dozen cars now rated higher. Reason - the new mouse-like controller.
Even Car and Driver have blasted the mouse as "The nadir in infotainment systems" WOW!
No wonder so many on this forum are giving the 2013 LS a miss.
05-20-13, 07:37 AM
#41
i find it amusing how just about everyone here who owns the older ls body style says they dont like the new one... Yet, when you see the new ls460 sitting next to the 07-12 ls, it makes ours look very old school. The new front grill, fsport package looks simply bad A$$ when compared to ours. Sometimes, if you look at the ES330 from the front, it looks like our ls460. I LOVE the new interior design, the SMALLER steering wheel, the dashboard and everything the new body style brings. However, this does not mean that i would pay 80 grand to drive it right now, but lets not get carried away by saying that the 07-12 looks way better than the new body style. It simply does NOT and it WON'T ever look better. The new cars have larger grilles, LED headlights with those cool looking turn signals and these are things that our cars DO NOT have. The new LS460 makes our body style look like its time is long gone. However, some people will CLEARLY not accept it.
05-20-13, 01:31 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by glenneagle
No wonder so many on this forum are giving the 2013 LS a miss.
I have the remote touch controller on my new GS and came from the older touch screen system, I don't have an issue with the remote touch controller at all. In the luxury car market controller systems are more the norm than touch screen systems.
05-22-13, 03:53 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Disclaimer: While I did own many Lexus cars, I don't consider myself an automotive expert - just a very experienced consumer.. It is not my intention to challenge anyone's opinion.
Yesterday, I went for a short test drive of the 2013 LS 460. Frankly, I didn't even go on the highway - due to my own time constraints.
As I wrote elsewhere, I have owned several LS cars, over the years. 1990 through 2008. A total of 9 LS cars over 23 years. Currently, I have two LS 600HLs.
The original 1990 LS 400 ($32,000) was a car far ahead of its time! It was a superb execution of perfection. The 2005 was not a good improvement (if any).
2008 was a good improvement in engine performance. They all looked about the same till about 2001. 2001 was a modest improvement over its predecessor - nothing amazing. Until 2007, I felt that the S class and the 7 were actually better looking cars.
2007 was the best looking Lexus LS ever and for the first time, in my opinion, the 2007 LS was the best looking among its peers - until the next (current) generation S class came out, of course. Even then, the LS is, I think, a beautiful car.
Now the good news for me! the 2013 is not particulary "awe inspiring". Nothing wrong with it. Frankly I am very happy that it looks not too far advanced than my 2008 LS. Obviously, the front grille is strikingly different and the rear lights are different - the 2013 LS rear looks more akin to the bmw 7 now and the LS does not have a "japanese looking rear end/rear lights". I could almost see the cues of the 7 series in the new LS's rear deck/lights.
Of course, there are a few more "improvements" - the hood has a ridge in the middle etc.. but from the side, it looks almost the same as my 2008 LS.
I am no expert driver and I didn't put the car through a test drive pace... but my first impression is that there is not much of an improvement (if any?). Please don't get me wrong.. It drives very nicesly, as does the current gen LS. I could not find anything "awesome" about the driving improvements (if any). I didn't even bother to take it onto the highway. I will do so, next week.. frankly, I don't expect much difference..
It seems to me that the engine and drive train are almost the same as the current LS. I didn't check the technical details but they "feel" just about the same.
Interior: Of course, it is nice but in my opinion "only a slight improvement". I am not a fan of the "mouse" type navigation systems. I prefer my touch screen. We still can't enter the route, while car is moving (Mercedes allows it. BMW and Audi, I think, also allow it).
Large screen but so what? It has climate control on the right - which is basically useless - who is going to use the mouse to change the temperature? It was kind of dumb, i thought.. I don't usually use the climate control screen.. The car is in auto temp and that's it.. Fortunately, they gave us hard temp related buttons.
I didn't try the apps feature (you can link the system to your phone on bluetooth and use some of the apps like bing and open table it seems). But the navigation does not seem to be a great improvement.. I liked the Audi's nav - yes $30/month for the car to have its own sim card.. but the car becomes a wifi hot spot and you have google maps - always upto date and easy to enter destination - simply search for it in google! I had expected lexus to give us a "tablet" in place of the nav - with multi touch/pinch type touch to zoom in and out.. and real time google browser and maps. Yes, even if restricted to car being stationary! They could have done better than Audi and added wifi connection to my phone - so that the car does not even need a sim card.. This way, I would have a 10" tablet in the car, running google and google maps etc.. Come on lexus! You are behind times and your nav updates are like 5 years behind (we have new interchanges in Milwaukee and lexus does not bother to update - as of 2012).
The interior seemed essentially same. It was an ls 460. Mine is 600h. The 600s have better interior (leather dash etc)..
While the interior of the 2013 is nice - its nothing spectacular.. nor is it much different from current gen cars! To be honest, I didn't spend much time examining the details of the interior.. It looked just about the same as current ls except that the dash is different.. The dash is nice but nothing "wow" about it..
Anyway.. that's my 2 cents worth of review.. Clearly, not enlightning but, just my humble opinion and ranting..
and yes, good news to the current 2007 - 2012 owners. Many of us can keep our cars for a few more years, without them looking outdated! BTW,
to the new grille
Yesterday, I went for a short test drive of the 2013 LS 460. Frankly, I didn't even go on the highway - due to my own time constraints.
As I wrote elsewhere, I have owned several LS cars, over the years. 1990 through 2008. A total of 9 LS cars over 23 years. Currently, I have two LS 600HLs.
The original 1990 LS 400 ($32,000) was a car far ahead of its time! It was a superb execution of perfection. The 2005 was not a good improvement (if any).
2008 was a good improvement in engine performance. They all looked about the same till about 2001. 2001 was a modest improvement over its predecessor - nothing amazing. Until 2007, I felt that the S class and the 7 were actually better looking cars.
2007 was the best looking Lexus LS ever and for the first time, in my opinion, the 2007 LS was the best looking among its peers - until the next (current) generation S class came out, of course. Even then, the LS is, I think, a beautiful car.
Now the good news for me! the 2013 is not particulary "awe inspiring". Nothing wrong with it. Frankly I am very happy that it looks not too far advanced than my 2008 LS. Obviously, the front grille is strikingly different and the rear lights are different - the 2013 LS rear looks more akin to the bmw 7 now and the LS does not have a "japanese looking rear end/rear lights". I could almost see the cues of the 7 series in the new LS's rear deck/lights.
Of course, there are a few more "improvements" - the hood has a ridge in the middle etc.. but from the side, it looks almost the same as my 2008 LS.
I am no expert driver and I didn't put the car through a test drive pace... but my first impression is that there is not much of an improvement (if any?). Please don't get me wrong.. It drives very nicesly, as does the current gen LS. I could not find anything "awesome" about the driving improvements (if any). I didn't even bother to take it onto the highway. I will do so, next week.. frankly, I don't expect much difference..
It seems to me that the engine and drive train are almost the same as the current LS. I didn't check the technical details but they "feel" just about the same.
Interior: Of course, it is nice but in my opinion "only a slight improvement". I am not a fan of the "mouse" type navigation systems. I prefer my touch screen. We still can't enter the route, while car is moving (Mercedes allows it. BMW and Audi, I think, also allow it).
Large screen but so what? It has climate control on the right - which is basically useless - who is going to use the mouse to change the temperature? It was kind of dumb, i thought.. I don't usually use the climate control screen.. The car is in auto temp and that's it.. Fortunately, they gave us hard temp related buttons.
I didn't try the apps feature (you can link the system to your phone on bluetooth and use some of the apps like bing and open table it seems). But the navigation does not seem to be a great improvement.. I liked the Audi's nav - yes $30/month for the car to have its own sim card.. but the car becomes a wifi hot spot and you have google maps - always upto date and easy to enter destination - simply search for it in google! I had expected lexus to give us a "tablet" in place of the nav - with multi touch/pinch type touch to zoom in and out.. and real time google browser and maps. Yes, even if restricted to car being stationary! They could have done better than Audi and added wifi connection to my phone - so that the car does not even need a sim card.. This way, I would have a 10" tablet in the car, running google and google maps etc.. Come on lexus! You are behind times and your nav updates are like 5 years behind (we have new interchanges in Milwaukee and lexus does not bother to update - as of 2012).
The interior seemed essentially same. It was an ls 460. Mine is 600h. The 600s have better interior (leather dash etc)..
While the interior of the 2013 is nice - its nothing spectacular.. nor is it much different from current gen cars! To be honest, I didn't spend much time examining the details of the interior.. It looked just about the same as current ls except that the dash is different.. The dash is nice but nothing "wow" about it..
Anyway.. that's my 2 cents worth of review.. Clearly, not enlightning but, just my humble opinion and ranting..
and yes, good news to the current 2007 - 2012 owners. Many of us can keep our cars for a few more years, without them looking outdated! BTW,
to the new grilleWhile the 2007-2012 was nice, I wouldn't say it was as nice as the competetion.
Finally for 2013, the LS has an awesome design inside and out.
I love the front end on the 13
05-22-13, 03:59 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
05-22-13, 06:13 PM
#45
I own a 2013 LS460, but I still like the 2007/2012 LS460's. it will become a timeless classic IMO. I also love the LS430 which is another car that I will always admire.