Fraser83

And the end result was....they didn't have any 2012s Rookie mistake on my part from the Lexus website. I thought when I put my zipcode in it was showing inventory at the nearest dealership to that zipcode when in fact it's all inventory within a certain mile radius. Either way $50k wouldn't have got me far, the sales guy said the day the 2013s arrived they lined the 2012s up and sold them all within a few days for $64k. Pretty amazed by that to be honest!

They had an '11 460L with 2000 miles on it for $61,000 (further cementing the low chances of my $50k offer!) so I went and had a poke around. The seats were nice but it felt rather dated to be honest, even compared to my previous generation S Class. I think even if $50k was a possibility I'd had to have thought long and hard about it As it was parked in the showroom I didn't get to drive it so in fairness I did only get a portion of the full experience...

I'd just test driven a rather smart 2013 ES with the ultra luxury package and felt that from an interior standpoint it did a better job of being an executive car than the '11 LS did at being a luxury car. I was very impressed with the tech side of the ES and it's certainly high on my consideration list. Sorry guys, I know it's poor form to be negative on an enthusiasts' IBB

onexcite

People getting 15K off MSRP on remain '12 LS. Give it a shot, I don't care if they laughed out at me but when I shop for car, I always bring cash with me: MONEY DO TALK.

SW17LS

The dealer actually prefers it if you finance. It's a fallacy that cash buyers get better deals, less money in the deal for the dealer if the buyer is cash.

It's 2013...bringing cash is just annoying.

If you don't drive the LS, you really miss what makes the LS special. Sure it's a little dated, the interior is basically 6 years old.

The ES is a great car, but the 2013 interior is so full of cheap plastic, the LS interior, while lacking the new tech, is an enormous step up in quality.

If you're looking to spend $50k, have you looked at the GS?

CJITTY

I cant believe we are talking ES and LS in any form of comparison..I dont care how new and fresh a 2013 ES is..I would take a 2007 LS over it any day

Fraser83

Understandable from a black and white standpoint but when I'm looking at a car I like something based on how well it does its job and since I'm considering a really wide range of cars, from a used Bentley Flying Spur to a new Golf GTI, that's very important.

Sure, I didn't get the full LS experience as I didn't drive it but for a luxury car the interior to me was very disappointing and hadn't aged well. I feel from my current all leather and alcantara S Class I'd be taking a big step back. As a luxury car it didn't blow me away and even an amazing test drive wouldn't have swayed me too greatly. Whereas I felt that with an ES I was looking at a smaller car that did a far better job in the executive car market.

I shall certainly look at a GS, I figured for a starting price of $47k that by the time I'd added options I'm keen in I'd be looking at a $60k car and for that I'd be able to get something a bit sexier....seems the GS comes rather well equipped, more so than I figured. Shall do some more homework.

CJITTY

I hear ya..for now I'm an LS kind of guy..based on the size of car I feel that I need. I have been in ES's, GS's but the LS just has the room, along with the options and power I like to have in a car. I really like the new ES, the new GS is finally growing on me (it takes some mods to get to that point), but the LS just has that look...big body car and all that. I have always loved both the S class and 7 series but the maintenance costs scared me off..leading me to Lexus

dochusar

I agree, comparing a new '13 ES to a '07 LS or an older model MB S-series is comparing apples to oranges.

There are many technological advances in the '13 ES and in the '13 LS. IMHO, the '13 LS is a much better buy, than the MB S-series, BMW 7-series and Audi A8. I have the F-Sport and just love the ride and handling.

williakz

What would you consider to be the MAIN "technological advances" in the 2013 LS? I assume you are comparing to the previous version (2007-2012). I was under the impression the refresh was mainly cosmetic and that NO real advances were made for 2013. Please edify me.

thegov3

I couldn't agree more.

Here is the thread I started a week or so ago. The 2013 ES is not even close to an LS or even an older ES.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...-es-350-a.html

Had a new 2013 ES 350 loaner while my LS was in for warranty work. I was able to put 1000 miles on it over the past week.

The ES 350 is much loader and not nearly as refined. as I had expected a new $45K 2013 Lexus to be. I figured the ride would be more refined and luxury car oriented. I assumed wrong. I drove some older ES’s and the 2013 is not even close to the same car in terms of quietness or ride quality. The 2013’s ride was no different than any Chevy Impala I rent at an out of town airport. The 2013 ES 350’s dash layout is nice looking, but I am sorry, I have to be able to touch the radio and air conditioning buttons to change them. That mouse thing is frustrating to use. I now know I don’t want my next car to have that type of layout. Yes, I know the new LS has the same layout.

The acceleration was decent and the new exterior on the ES 350 was not too bad. I liked it. But after real world driving for a week, I would not buy a 2013 ES. No way.

SW17LS

You have to bear in mind the LS is much cheaper than your S Class. You certainly would be taking a much bigger step back to an ES. Sit in a $130,000 LS600hL and see how it compares.

Yeah, mine was $60k. What else could you get that would be sexier for $60k in a 4 door sport sedan? Nothing without sacrificing content for style.

The entire user interface of the car is different, completely different infotainment system, completely different suspension/drive mode integration system. I don't have an LS, but going from a 2010 ES, which had basically the same setup as the 10-12 LS, and going to a 2013 GS, which has basically the same setup as a 2013 LS, its a HUGE difference.

I haven't driven the new LS, I can believe it drives very much the same as the previous LS...which is hardly a bad thing, but the new interface is a big improvement IMHO, as is the exterior and interior styling.

I wouldn't buy a used LS, certainly not one as old as 2007 over a new ES350, but I'm not a used car guy to begin with. The ES is a great car, its not an LS but when its not being compared with the LS its a very comfortable, quiet, beautifully riding car, and technology is a big step up from an older LS460.

dochusar

Cosmetic, I compare the '13LS to the '12 and earlier LS.

I have the F-sport package with a more sport oriented air suspension. There are settings for normal, comfort, sport and sport plus settings are the same as in as the GS F-sport with the same throttle and suspension changes. The electronics - navigation screen (size), phone book capabilities and the seventh generation nav system are identical to the GS and ES new generation. Yes the changes are subtle, but are more than skin deep. It is an evolution similar to what Audi, MB and BMW have done. The physical size and configuration are essentially unchanged, why mess with success? I think this an evolutionary remodel. For Lexus, it may be a refresh, but compared with other car makers, it is an entire generation of vehicle -- front fascia, interior dash cluster, and controls are similar to the new GS and ES.

williakz

Nice write-up. Didn't the previous generation LS have air suspension available as an option? I wonder how it differs from the current setup. The other poster mentioned the "infotainment" system as an advance as well. With the removal of the oh-so-easy touch screen in favor of the wasted space and carpal tortures of the RTI, I'd be sorely tempted to call this a step backward, not an advance! My wife has the new GS450h and that unit has some REAL technological advances, as does the GS350 in its other flavors. The LS? Not so much, IMO.

SW17LS

I can't speak to how the mechanics of the system have changed, but the way the settings are designed is totally different with Sport S and Sport S+. Its a combined program of suspension settings, steering tightness, throttle response, and stability system mapping that was never present before.

I too came from a touchscreen and was very dubious of the remote touch controller but now I like it a lot. We've got a touch screen in the Jeep, and I much prefer the remote touch setup. You need to adjust the sensitivity settings to meet your preferences and live with it a while.

Every "technological advance" on your wife's GS450h or a GS350 is on the new LS, plus some. To say the GS has "REAL" technological advances yet the LS does not...when they share the identical technology makes no sense.

skaelmore

One week late last year, we went to the dealer and they had a beautiful 2013 LS, but the salesman said their best price was MSRP, so we turned on our heels and walked out without another word. About a week later, we went in and saw a nice 2012 LS and the salesman said they would give us a "smokin' hot deal" on it. When I asked what the Smokin' Hot Deal was, he started to shuck and jive. I stopped him and said, "Let me motivate you! I have $1,000 on a BMW 7 series across the street and I'm here to pick it up (all true). He immediately got with the Sales Manager, who then got with the General Manager and came out with a printout full of prices on the car. I arm twisted them some more and got even a little more off. I think I got it for over $10K under sticker (I'll have to see if my wife can find the paperwork). It was $20-$30K less than the 2013s I had seen, but they were somewhat better equipped. I bought a 2011 BMW Z4 35is new in 2011. BMW seems to have at least $10K to play with on new cars, but the Lexus GM said that they don't have that kind of margin.