BigLew

My first post so I hope I am within the forum bounds here.

I have owned a '97 LS400 for about ten years. Bought it used with around 50,000miles on it in Miami. Today it has over 150,000miles and I have done absolutely nothing except fluids and tires. Last Christmas, I got the itch and early in January I purchased a CPO '09 LS460 AWD. Only as evidence of my experience and expectations, I have owned several MB’s over the years and still own an older convertible.

Test drives of the CPO LS460 were completed on snowy, icy roads which may have been my first mistake. I made a very bad assumption that buying a CPO would protect me from the pitfalls that buying a used auto might normally bring.

Now I find myself nearly 3 months later questioning my purchase for the following reasons.

1.The ’09 LS460 cabin noise is atrocious compared to the ’97 LS400. Some of you might be tempted to question this as bad memory as I might, but I kept the LS400 for my daughter to drive, and I just recently chose it over the LS 460 for an hour+ road trip, with a coworker who rides daily in my LS460, and even he commented that the LS400 was quieter. I am researching tires today to see what effect this might have. It currently has a set of Michelin Energy Saver A/S on it. Has anyone found the best set of tires for quiet comfort on the 2009 LS460? THis is my first experience with an AWD automobile. Are louder than normal bearing/shaft seal noises to be expected?

2.Adding to the cabin noise is what I can only describe as a grinding noise that appears to be coming from the left front wheel area. It does not seem brake related. The sounds frequency seems related to speed and is most noticeable at 45 to 55 MPH. I mentioned this at the dealer before buying and they assured me that there CPO rep had driven it and that the sound was normal. The longer I drive it the more convinced I am that was a misleading sales pitch, that I fell for.

3.The ride is softer, more comfortable in the LS400 than the LS460. I feel like I am riding in a covered wagon (exaggeration) in the LS460. Again may be tires. Or I question the tire pressure, which reads 38 – 40psi on the display. Seems high to me. But I am concerned about running lower pressure with the 235/50R18 tires lower sidewall profile. This winter has left us with car eating potholes that have already rattled my teeth to the point I check the wheels for damage after every excursion. Don’t seem to experience the same in the LS400.

4.Ice and snow build up between the wheel wells and tires on this car occurs far far worse than any car I have ever owned. Within a few miles the ice/snow build up are impeding steering in front and rubbing on the rear. Has anyone else experienced this as an issue on the LS460?

I have read the thread regarding cabin noise and am considering the triangular patch in front of the mirror as a possible solution. It seems that fix has some mixed reviews though.

As a small business owner, I often have occasion to invite other business owners and clients to lunch. I prefer to drive them when they are visiting from out of town. It was one of the factors in updating my automobile. I find myself not wanting to make the invitations because I am almost embarrassed to have them ride in the car. Don’t get me wrong, the automobile is beautiful. But it is so noisy and harsh riding that I am embarrassed for Lexus should my guests form their opinions of Lexus based on this car.

Now I am faced with dealing with Lexus service personnel with what I thought was to be a trouble free automobile. This is somewhat unnerving as I don’t know what to expect from them, and the nearest dealer is some distance from my home. I purchased the car from an out of town dealer as used LS460’s aren’t available in any numbers in my town, like zero when I was looking.

Since nothing ever failed on the LS400, I don’t know what to expect. What should I expect from Lexus service? I did purchase the Lexus 125,000 mile extended warranty as I did expect to keep the car for some time as I tend to do.

hfahmy

What kind of tires you have and how old are they? I also just purchased CPO, had 25k miles old Turanzas and were very rough and noisy. Complained to the dealer, who ignored me initially, complained to Lexus and finally got 4 new michelins that made the car ride in the clouds. This might address big part of your concern.

islandbeef

+1 Brand of tires could contribute to a lot of road noise/driving comfort. You get what you pay for most of the time.

AznRacer

iTrader: (2)

Road noise have a lot to do with tires brand, balance and alignment. I recently had a set of bridgestone turanza serenity install onto my 19" and it was louder then usuall. I know this because I had uses these tires before in different sizes on my old ls430 and on the ls460 18" and they were quite. So I went ahead and got a alignment done with road force balance and the result was excellent. Rides like how it should very smooth and quite.

shrikelex

Glad to hear it worked out for you AznRacer. Far as my two cents, I'd say you can't go wrong with Michelins, I had Turanzas on my Hondas in the past (not the Serenitys) and it was the equivalent of being in the space shuttle blasting off, you had to wear ear protection, heck when I see a Turanza tire in a store, it's like looking at a butt ugly chick, I politely just walk away and hope its not following me, lol

jmcraney

BigLew,

I understand your anguish regarding the cabin noise. It is not you and it is not normal. I have followed this issue closely for the past 6 years and I can tell you that it is a virtual certainty that your car can be transformed into an exceptionally quiet vehicle with a simple and inexpensive DIY repair. Lexus seems unable or unwilling to provide any help with this issue and their position seems to be that this condition is "within specs." Lexus has been forced to buyback many of these problem vehicles because of Lemon Law actions. Yours probably had that noisy cabin problem the day that it was purchased new and the previous owner had to endure it too.

A procedure for a very conservative DIY repair, that has yielded good results for many, is here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...noise-fix.html

Check the Private Message feature in this forum for a message.

Nospinzone

Hey welcome BigLew, and your first thread was well within bounds!

I'll try to shed some light on your comments.

1. Most 460 owners who had a 400 or 430 have commented that the earlier versions were quieter. Try the JMCraney wind noise fix. I am not familiar with that particular Michelin, but there are some better tires out there for quiet comfort. Check some tests on Tire Rack.

2. Grinding noise definitely should not be there. Go back to your dealer and tell him you want to drive a demo and see if it makes the same noise, betcha it doesn't.

3. I run 38-40 psi in my tires, but I don't expect a soft and quiet ride with them. Back off the pressures to 32 or so.

4. The ice and snow build up is a function of the tires not the car. It actually is a good thing because it means they are siping off the snow and slush efficiently.

philj

Hi Biglew, I purchased a 09 460l new. I had the wind noise and I did the DYI fix. I played with the air pressure and purchased Continental dws to fix it.

Take the time to fix the car. Make the dealer do the right thing. Be polite at all time but be relentless. there is no reason why you should live with a problem you can fix.

peteybabes

^^All my Michelin's ride at 32 and my summer tires just a bit higher in the 38psi range.

roadfrog

This 08 I just purchased in January is the nicest, quietest and smoothest car I've EVER driven or owned.

However I've never owned a 97 LS400 or apparently a 430. I have owned a 7 series BMW and an Acura and other higher end cars, but this one blows them (and any others away).

BigLew

Want to thank all those who took the time to listen to my rantings. Kudo's to all forum users for makning me feel welcome.

And while I haven't tried the fix yet, I have read nearly all of your work on the noise issue JMCRANEY and respect your devotion to problem solving, and your kindness in sharing all that work with forum members. It just seems a shame to have to hack into a fine car like the LS460 to implement such a fix. But I am working up the nerve to do it, probably after I install new tires.

I am currently researching tires, spent over 8 hours reading and cataloging reviews on a spreadsheet. It seems I am finding it coming down between Michelin Primacy and Continetal Pure Contact . I tend to be leery of another set of Michelins on it as the curent set of Michelin Energy Saver A/S may be part of the current noise issue. Any thoughts out there from 2009 LS460 AWD owners on the quietest, smoothest riding tire to try?

BigLew

So you are saying the Serenity's were quiet on the 18" but noisy on the 19". Did you switch from 18's to 19's on your LS460? And what year and was it RWD or AWD. Also can someone explain what is meant by road force balance alignment?

jmcraney

It is possible to "balance" a tire and wheel that is not round but, out-of-round tires present problems on cars at higher speeds. Hunter Engineering Company makes a high-end tire balancer that takes into consideration a tire's roundness and tread stability by putting pressure on the tire during the balancing process with a roller and measuring the amount of force needed to make the tire round.

Here is a link to one of Hunter's sites that explains about the process: http://www.gsp9700.com/index.htm

For owner's who are having vibration issues this technology will sort out many of the problems and seems to be widely available, if you know to ask for it.

CJITTY

If the Hunter can't. .then high speed on the car will in most cases

caha14

The Michelin Primacy tires are nothing short of excellent, IMHO. I've been led astray by tire reviews on Tire Rack before, but my own experience with the Primacys has been outstanding, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.