lexusfan05

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
I noticed that previous gen LS is not much more expensive than a same year similar mileage ES. For example, 2008 70k miles LS460 can be had around 25k whereas similar ES350 is around 17k. Considering their original prices, LS takes a huge depreciation. Why? Is it that much more expensive to maintain?
Coming from the ES/RX side, I am contemplating joining the LS owner's elite group. While I am happy to see such fine cars within my reach, I am worried that there is a real reason for these to drop so much in value and I will be signing up for trouble.
Any insight will be appreciated.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

historically from my observation, rx and es have always retained better resale value overall. i think it might have to do with how practical the car is (so relatively in higher demand).

cars like IS, GS, and LS tend to follow a more traditional luxury car depreciation. maintenance wise, i don't think LS is a lot more expensive to maintain, but of course with high mileage cars, i am sure some of the parts in LS are more expensive.

of course, also keep in mind that LS has a lot more high tech stuff compared to the ES (in the same era), even though lexus reliability is not bad, if any of the electronics break, it's going to be very expensive. that in some way explain why a more expensive lexus flagship depreciates faster / more than an entry level. but this is no difference when compared to other brands like bmw and mb. their flagships also depreciate big time

greg3852

I personally don't consider the prices to be that close. A 2008 LS460 will cost $25k and up, where a 2008 ES will cost 20K or less. So at a minimum thats $5k difference and the mileages will be QUITE different.

As to the cost of ownership, the big ticket items that can break are not electronic items. Really the only one of those is the ML Amp. Other than that, electronics do not break often. The most common issues are control arm bushings, maybe air ride issues, minor fit and finish issues. But despite all these issues, aftermarket parts can be bought VERY cheaply and brought to an Indy mechanic or done yourself.

The difference between the two cars is gigantic. It is like night and day. Every time I go to the dealer I sit in the ES's and say nope. I wouldnt take a brand new ES over my 2007 LS. Not in a million years.

Keep looking around the forum and you will pick up a lot of things to look for when you begin your search. Things you should get are Mark Levinson, adaptive cruise if you use cruise a lot. You also have to decide between short wheel base or long, or an LS 600h...Lot of things to consider. Before you buy, come post a thread and ask questions. We will help answer all your questions.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Big luxury cars depreciate much more than their smaller siblings, regardless of make (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc). The market for such cars is much lower. Think about it - I couldn't afford an LS460 until it was over 6 years old (~$25,000). By that time, repairs will start costing quite a bit. For $25,000, I can get a much newer ES350 which will likely need less in repairs. I think fewer people are prepared to pay for expensive repairs to an expensive, used, older car and hence, the values fall faster. Extended warranties help but they are no bargain either.

lexusfan05

Thanks for all the thoughts. Given Lexus's reliability record, I wouldn't put Lexus in the same group BMW or MB but the market seems to be doing exactly that.
Unless LS has much worse reliability compared to the rest of Lexus models (which does not seem to be the case), the abovementioned mindset makes a great car much more affordable relatively quickly.

Doublebase

I just think you'd be hard pressed to find any high end luxury cars that start off at such a high cost, not to drop significantly in value compared to a lower priced/lower end model.

I do think the LS is more expensive to maintain, because the ES is essentially a v6 camry...same engine, same tranny....same things are going to go wrong. Where as the LS has a very different transmission, engine and suspension. You don't see many LS's on the road, but I can't go ten feet without seeing a ES.

Devh

A slightly used LS460 is probably the best value in cars as long as you keep the car for a long time and enjoy it. The reason for the LS460s deprecation is simple economics in that you don't have many people that can afford cars in that that price range and if the deprecation rate was the same for the ES then no one would by a used LS when they can buy a new one. Eighty thousand dollars is a lot of money for a car and you are not going to have many buyers even if they lowered the car to sixty thousand because people who are stretched out for half that amount simply cant afford it.

RR601

It depends on if you can live with an ES. If so there is no question in my mind it is the smart way to go. And it is a great car for the money.
The LS just has a lot more options that can go wrong. There are a lot of parts not made directly by lexus. Too many electronics and small motors.
The ES will even look better longer. I think the ES has nuluxe imitation leather. Just as comfortable and good looking. But will outlast the cracking leather.

I have a 2011 LS sport with 20K miles. Minor cracking already on the garage kept car.
The seats do not look bad, but do not look as new as the cloth seats in my 2003 4Runner.


All this said I would not trade my LS. I really like the car and lucky enough that I can afford it if anything goes wrong.

R Z

When I took my LS in for the nav update, Lexus loaned me an ES. I couldn't wait to get my car back. It felt small and uncomfortable. The depreciation on the LS is what helped me get one in the first place. I'm hoping the depreciation will slow down so long as I keep the mileage reasonably low when it comes time to sell. I like the size and feel of an LS. Having had one ES and 3 LS, I know depreciation is different, but not a factor for me.

Ride Sally Ride! ;-)

lexusfan05

This is becoming tougher than I thought. I have an 2012 ES, bought new, and I love it. It has the real leather, so there are creases, not cracks yet. I like the ride quality and power. I was thinking that LS will be much better than the ES, so I wanted to get an LS myself and give my ES to my wife (our daughter is getting her RX).

So I test drove an LS today. It was good and smooth, but it's not 100% better than ES. Granted, I have not driven a Rolls Royce, so I don't know how much smoother a car can get. All I can tell is that LS is not so much better than ES that it's a no brainer.

Maybe I should see if I can convince my wife to get a GX so that I can stick to the ES.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I love this forum.

SW17LS

I think the differences will be more apparent as you live with the LS day to day compared to the ES. I had two ES's, now I have a GS, my dad had two LS's. The ES is a great car, don't get me wrong...but its not a special car like the LS or the GS. I drove the ES for 10 years, and now that I've driven the GS for 2 years I recognize things about it that were there in the LS's but lacking in the ES's. A certain level of refinement, a cabin free from cost cutting, the vault like ride that comes from the more rigid structure, the better build quality, and the more sophisticated suspension. The sensation of nothing that the car is doing being unrefined.

The LS and GS make any other car I sit in or drive feel inferior, while the ES's did not...as much as I liked them and as good cars as they were.

I can safely say I would not go back to driving the ES.