CRowe14

7, this is dedicated to you my friend!

2015 KIA K900 vs Lexus LS 460 Matchup Review: And the Ultimate Asian Lux...:

roadfrog

Regarding BMW, this video tells of all the issues with a Limo company and their fleet of 7 series:


Have a look at this pic, it's what my car looked like after idling for 2 minutes:

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...25.html#agal_0

As for KIA, I'm not surprised in the least. Before long, they will continue to climb the charts, just as Hyundai has. Add to that the 10 yr warranty and it's a hard one to turn your nose up to.

7milesout

Because I worked for Hyundai/Kia for 7 years. So I don't come off with a bad image (or maybe a worse image ) I'll leave it at that. Some of the truths I could tell could get me in very hot water.

I believe I have seen that comparison video, but I will watch it again.

I'm serious, the whole ranking system is bogus. I will say that I think it is RELATIVE. Meaning I do think Lexus is at or near the top, and that Fiat is at or near the bottom. No way Kia is #9, but I will say it is very reasonable that Kia is higher than Hyundai. Although they are 1 company, the Kia company engineers when they transitioned to Hyundai continue to be segregated and that was probably a good thing. Those guys to me seemed like they had a little more mindset of "when in Rome, do as the Romans." Whereas the Hyundai engineers had a mindset of "when in America, do things the same ***-backward way as done in Korea, expect success, don't achieve it, but lie to each other and the chairman and claim we are Lexus quality." I am not exaggerating. They claimed the NF (previous Sonata) was the same quality as Lexus. I would vomit mentally when I heard that.


7milesout

Doublebase

Crowe those tail lights are very cool. I do wonder if there will be some sort of driver distraction that must be considered before these are implemented, I know if I saw those I'd drive right off the road looking at them.

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone thought of doing something like this and I'm not surprised it was Audi...were they the first ones to wrap the LED's inside their headlights? Now everyone does it.

I do wonder how these tail lenses will look during the day - from what I could see of them when they weren't operating they didn't look very good, but I imagine they will work on that. Cool video.

Doublebase

It bothers me that a car company would put a product like that out there and not stand behind it...and think about it...this was their flagship vehicle.

I have a friend that is a factory rep, I asked him about these cars because I was thinking of buying one because they were selling for so cheap. He said yes, you can buy an 80k dollar car for 8k on Craigslist, but you will not be able to afford keeping it on the road. He said that even he as an expert could not figure out the nightmare of electrical problems these cars generate. And he said he and all his factory rep friends stand around these cars dumbfounded at what they are witnessing every time they come in. He said they are the worst car BMW has ever built.

The other car I asked him about was the 535 - because they too can be had for cheap - again, he called those cars a nightmare as well. He said the fuel system on that car (the mechanical fuel pump for the direct injection system) fails. And will fail regularly causing engine damage (I believe it was the cams). He said that BMW actually bought the facility where they made these fuel pumps so they could rectify the problem - they couldn't - so now BMW owns a factory that makes faulty mechanical fuel pumps somewhere. BMW then had to warranty the fuel pump problem out until 120k miles. Now these cars drive great (when they are running), but he assured me that I would have that car in the shop at least every other month for repairs.

I will admit I've driven BMWs before and loved the way they drive - I've never owned one - but I've found them to be smooth, quiet and powerful. It's a shame they are such crap boxes.

Doublebase

Crowe, did you watch this video? LOL!

After watching it I must say that I would probably never buy the KIA. Even the guy representing the KIA said he would buy the Lexus. Half way through the video I began thinking...neither one of these guys really like either of these cars, but if they had to choose, they'd pick the Lexus.

Personally I thought the KIA just didn't look right - not with that nose - no way would I consider that to be a good look for a car trying to compete at that level. I understand what they were trying to do...create a large car with sophistication, but I think they failed on the nose...and those side vents??? That brings back memories of Buick/GM/Pontiac.

I also couldn't help but notice the difference in both of these engine's ability to rev. Wow, what a HUGE difference. And I was surprised about the 0-60 times on both of these cars. I have a rear wheel drive LS 460 and I believe my stock 0-60 time is 5.6? Or was it 5.8? I can't remember, but I can tell you - although it isn't as fast as the Corvette I used to own - it will place myself and all my passengers deep in their seats when I pass someone of floor it.

I feel this way about KIA/Hyundai....I think they are innovative in the sense that they try to be high tech. I think their cars are generally nice looking. I think their interiors are flashy and pretty cool looking. I think they have a a lot of nice options and are priced obviously well. I do think they have come a long way, but I have also seen what these cars look like five years later and it's shocking...door handles broken...every ****/button inside broken or faded....seats broken...panels and fenders rotted out...sub frames and cradles ruined because of rot. I don't know what their criteria is for metal, or what their standards are at the factory, but something is definitely wrong. Having said that, I would consider an Optima or a Sonata for a commuting car because they are cheap and get good gas mileage (plus they look decent), but I would buy it used knowing that I would have to throw it away in five years.

gyrase321

The LS has that look of understated luxury...the aura of old money. Very nice. Hopefully the next LS will not depart too much from this design language.

roadfrog

The 7 series BMW made Time magazin'es, "50 worst cars ever made".

Yes, but remember, these tests were done at 6k feet altitude, so performance suffers significantly at that elevation.

7milesout

Guys - I hope you guys don't think I'm just some negative Neanderthal. I'm not. I'm a very happy go lucky Neanderthal! I spent 5 years working for Toyota in design at the North American design center in Michigan. I loved it. All 5 years. I even enjoyed living in Michigan. I thought I would hate it. But I lived amongst so many other gear heads. I only left that job because The Warden was not happy living there, we had our first 2 sons, and they rarely go to see our families (both families in GA.).

I left there to work for Hyundai under the pretense that Koreans being Asian, would be very similar to the Japanese. And that Hyundai was trying to immulate (emmulate, however that word is spelled) Toyota. Well, neither of those pretenses were true. They didn't try to out engineer Toyota, they try to copy them as much as feasible, but to do it as dirt cheap as is possible. It was disgusting. After 7 years with Hyundai I never bought one of their vehicles. And I'm glad. I had a Corolla the whole time I worked there that had like 100k on it. Every crapper I leased (for free) from them was severly out performed by my 100k mile Corolla. Lots of other bad things, too many to talk about. I will forever have a bad taste left in my mouth with Hyundai/Kia.

On the other hand, it made it very clear to me how and why Toyota vehicle are so much better. And that's not just lip (or eye) service. I still have that Corolla. The Warden is currently beating the hell out of it, and it's taking it. 180k miles AND THE BRAKES HAVE NEVER BEEN TOUCHED and work fine. The clutch feels a bit roasted after the wife has used it over the past 1.25 years, but it's still going. It's not a prom queen, it's like a baby work-horse. Maybe a work-shetland-pony. Those 9th Gen Corollas may look a bit lame, or like a girlie car, but I just love the thing. Could drive it cross-country right now, with not the first concern. And would get 35+ mpg doing it.

Toyota man FOR LIFE.


7milesout

CRowe14

Double-I did indeed watch that video! I enjoyed it very much! Informative but also humorous!
You know, its funny because as much as I don't know about cars and am learning, certain things definitely jump out at me. As you pointed out, the way these two engines rev was such a difference! Did you notice that the K900 wasn't fully able to redline as the Lexus was able to? It would begin to sputter badly at a few thousand rpm's before the redline.
And I just couldn't agree with you more about the looks: interior and exterior of the Kia. Im not sure if you remember us taking about this in the "LS vs K900" thread a while back, when I saw a 2012 or 2013 Hyundai Equuis and the interior looked so beat up and it only had around 30k on the clock. Perhaps the owner was rough on the car, but everything looked beat up AND the dash looked dated already!
One thing I can say about the dash of the LS, even our cars are about 7-8 years old, these cars were ahead of their time design/engineering wise. There is hardly anything about these cars that look or feel "dated". If anything, the very front of these cars kind of tell their age, mostly the grille, but other than that, these machines are engineering feats!
When I drive my Honda, I park it outside behind the LS which is in the garage. And sometimes I sit there and look at the read view of the LS. Sometimes i'll get out and just stare at the side profile of the car and think to myself..."this is a really, really nice, sleek, aero dynamic vehicle. You ever pay attention to how the cars lines translate and contour as it goes from the front to the rear. Hood to widow sill to the trunk lid...and how the read end narrows but appears to sit low and the large but sleek design of the tail lights are complimented by the shape and placement of the tail pipes...The over all lines of this car enables it to seem as if it sits low and sleek...dare I say: sporty!
These cars have plenty of power for me. Now, they drag a bit upon initial punch, but boy as the LS climbs...its almost like its been sling shot!
Lastly, im with you on the Hyundai! Nice looking cars..come a long way, but are they for the long haul??

CRowe14

Roadfrog:
That video clip was amusing but also sad... That's just insane!
This isnt to say anything negative about your choice of vehicle, and aside from that, I don't know a whole lot about BMW, only that they, at one point made a good car. But I was curious to know what made you chose to purchase the 7 series? Did you decide to take a gamble? I know that sometimes, a car can have a bad rep, but not all cars are plagued, so you could look out and get a decent one...
Also, was it difficult for you to get rid of it, with the reputation that it had?
I also wasn't aware that altitude made that much of an effect on acceleration...interesting...

CRowe14

I don't take you as a negative man at all! Quite humorous and informing actually!
I very vividly remember your monologue regarding your career back when you typed it in the "LS vs K900" thread. I've even recited that story to a few friend and family members. Whats even more funny, is that I lived in Atlanta for 7 years, have my parents and sister there still, and now I reside in NW Indiana, right outside of Chicago, and not far from Michigan, and im trying to get back to Atlanta!
You worked for a company that arguably makes and has made the best made car to date, you loved it and still have a car made by that company today with little to no problems with nearly 200k on the dash! I'd say you have every right to champion Toyota! I've never engineered for Honda nor anything close. But family members and I have owned a good few and how you feel about the Toyota brand is how I feel about Honda. They just make great cars! Now I wish I could say my 15 year old Accord still has its original brakes and has been problem free, but I cant say that. However, what I can say is that I went nearly 8 years without having to do anything but oil changes tires/tire rotations, brake pads. And the things that have gone wrong have not been anything mind boggling, and on top of that, the repairs don't kill me from a financial standpoint. My gas mileage wouldn't be as good, but i'd be willing to bet I could go across country in my Accord as well. Cheers to that!

roadfrog

It all started after we bought my wife an X5. I fell in love with the German engineering and just had to have a 7 series. I bought it spur of the moment at a great price with low mileage, and since I'm a staunch DIY'er, I figured I could hande whatever came my way. Boy was I wrong. My car was plagued by ALL of the issues that these cars have (oil burning, coolant pipe leak, carbon build-up, etc etc).

I had no issue with getting rid of it becasue the dealer I bought my Lex from, took it on trade at wholesale price (8k dollars). Yes you read that right a 100+k dollar car that deprecitaes 90% in under ten years. I was soooo relieved driving off that lot with my LS.

7milesout

Roadfrog - Somehow I had missed the fact that you had a 7 Series. Was it one of the ones the video is about? I meant to watch that video, got sidetracked. Will try again tonight. I can't watch it at work, I'm lucky to be able to view / post here while at work. They block a lot.

Quick story, I've got a colleague (don't know how to spell that either) at work, who owns a big black 750iL. Like a 2007 or 2008 model. He bought it in maybe 2011 or 2012 with about 46k miles. It now has about 64k on it. He went to drive it recently. It cranks but when he put it in reverse, a big cog showed up on the dash saying something along the lines of, R, D4, D3, (maybe more) have limited capability. Please consult dealership. Something like that. But it started out of his garage.

He thought, what if it gets worse and I get out and get stranded. So he put it back in the garage and drove his beater (a Camry with over 200k miles that just plain ole gets it done). Later he went to mess with it again, and when he puts it in reverse, it does not go into gear, and the indicator on the dash automatically goes back to Park. Does the same thing when he puts it in Drive.

It's currently in the garage as he is now washing his underwear while he figures out what to do (he doesn't want to take it to the dealer due to the expense), and worries about the cost. I supported him as best I could. I didn't tell him this, but when me and my other friends were discussing the deep doodoo he's in, I told them that he could fix it very easy ... he could just buy an LS!

roadfrog

No, but it may as well have been. Two minutes of idling and then a massive plume of blue smoke on acceleration. Highly embarassing.