Forbes 2015 models don't buy list - 1st on the list BMW 7 series!
05-04-15, 04:22 AM
#1
Forbes 2015 models don't buy list - 1st on the list BMW 7 series!
http://www3.forbes.com/autos/15-new-cars-to-avoid/16/
Forbes : ".....Consumer Reports takes the 7 Series to task for being “a ponderous, technology-laden vehicle with ungainly handling,” and is included in the publication’s lists of lowest-scoring cars, worst overall values and most expensive operating costs in its class. Not to pile on, but it also gets a rock-bottom resale value rating from ALG and a below average performance score from J.D. Power.".
Full list : http://www2.forbes.com/autos/15-new-...ntent=34938908
Forbes : ".....Consumer Reports takes the 7 Series to task for being “a ponderous, technology-laden vehicle with ungainly handling,” and is included in the publication’s lists of lowest-scoring cars, worst overall values and most expensive operating costs in its class. Not to pile on, but it also gets a rock-bottom resale value rating from ALG and a below average performance score from J.D. Power.".
Full list : http://www2.forbes.com/autos/15-new-...ntent=34938908
05-04-15, 07:12 AM
#3
Pole Position
No car will keep it's true value once it's driven off the parking lot (short of a classic rebuilt from the ground up and sold at auction. Even those sometimes do terrible.). Unfortunately American cars have never rebounded from the days of yore when they put out trash. I was one of the unfortunates who bought a 74 Chevy Vega GT only to have the engine go out year 3 with no help from Chevy.
As for the BMW, while I'm no fan, a friend just bought the new 7 series and loves it. To each their own.
As for the BMW, while I'm no fan, a friend just bought the new 7 series and loves it. To each their own.
05-04-15, 08:00 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
I LOVED my 7 series when it was not afflicted with some new problem. So yeah basically what I''m saying is, I NEVER loved my 7. The only comfort I had in it's ownership was being a member of Bimmerfest, ( a forum similar to ours here at CL). We all grieved together over the coolant leaks, oil burning, transmission problems, electrical gremlins, carbon build up in the heads (6k dollar repair), Power trunks that stopped working, and on and on. Mine, (with 50k miles on it), belched so much blue smoke, traffic disappeared behind me. To get all repairs done would have cost me 20k dollars or more....problem is, those same problems would return at some point because the engineering was so poor.
The best line I ever heard about 7 series ownership was, "Owning a 7 Series is like being married to a sex-starved super model........with a 500 dollar a day crack habit". So true.
I finally wised up and traded it in for my LS. Is it as fun to drive as my 7 Series? Not quite, but the excitement of the 7 is drama I can do without
I traded it in (with 90k miles on it), for 7k dollars. Highest depreciation I've ever seen or experienced. I don't miss her one little bit. You will never see a used 7 series being sold at a reputable dealership here because they know what they'll face from their customers after they drive it off the lot. But if you go to an auction or wholesaler, you'll have your pick of many.
On a similar note to the Forbes article was Time magazine's "50 Worst Cars Ever Made". The BMW 7 was in there alongside AMC Pacer and Edsel. Congrats BMW.
I will NEVER again own a German car. I still have our BMW X5, and am only keeping it because it can tow my boat and has been less trouble-prone recently after spending a ton of money fixing it (bushings, oil leaks, transmission leaks, coolant leaks, electrical problems). Still leaks fluids like a 100 year old senior in Depends, but I can deal with that for now.
The best line I ever heard about 7 series ownership was, "Owning a 7 Series is like being married to a sex-starved super model........with a 500 dollar a day crack habit". So true.
I finally wised up and traded it in for my LS. Is it as fun to drive as my 7 Series? Not quite, but the excitement of the 7 is drama I can do without
I traded it in (with 90k miles on it), for 7k dollars. Highest depreciation I've ever seen or experienced. I don't miss her one little bit. You will never see a used 7 series being sold at a reputable dealership here because they know what they'll face from their customers after they drive it off the lot. But if you go to an auction or wholesaler, you'll have your pick of many.
On a similar note to the Forbes article was Time magazine's "50 Worst Cars Ever Made". The BMW 7 was in there alongside AMC Pacer and Edsel. Congrats BMW.
I will NEVER again own a German car. I still have our BMW X5, and am only keeping it because it can tow my boat and has been less trouble-prone recently after spending a ton of money fixing it (bushings, oil leaks, transmission leaks, coolant leaks, electrical problems). Still leaks fluids like a 100 year old senior in Depends, but I can deal with that for now.
Last edited by roadfrog; 05-04-15 at 08:05 AM.
05-04-15, 08:18 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
I LOVED my 7 series when it was not afflicted with some new problem. So yeah basically what I''m saying is, I NEVER loved my 7. The only comfort I had in it's ownership was being a member of Bimmerfest, ( a forum similar to ours here at CL). We all grieved together over the coolant leaks, oil burning, transmission problems, electrical gremlins, carbon build up in the heads (6k dollar repair), Power trunks that stopped working, and on and on. Mine, (with 50k miles on it), belched so much blue smoke, traffic disappeared behind me. To get all repairs done would have cost me 20k dollars or more....problem is, those same problems would return at some point because the engineering was so poor.
The best line I ever heard about 7 series ownership was, "Owning a 7 Series is like being married to a sex-starved super model........with a 500 dollar a day crack habit". So true.
I finally wised up and traded it in for my LS. Is it as fun to drive as my 7 Series? Not quite, but the excitement of the 7 is drama I can do without
I traded it in (with 90k miles on it), for 7k dollars. Highest depreciation I've ever seen or experienced. I don't miss her one little bit. You will never see a used 7 series being sold at a reputable dealership here because they know what they'll face from their customers after they drive it off the lot. But if you go to an auction or wholesaler, you'll have your pick of many.
On a similar note to the Forbes article was Time magazine's "50 Worst Cars Ever Made". The BMW 7 was in there alongside AMC Pacer and Edsel. Congrats BMW.
I will NEVER again own a German car. I still have our BMW X5, and am only keeping it because it can tow my boat and has been less trouble-prone recently after spending a ton of money fixing it (bushings, oil leaks, transmission leaks, coolant leaks, electrical problems). Still leaks fluids like a 100 year old senior in Depends, but I can deal with that for now.
The best line I ever heard about 7 series ownership was, "Owning a 7 Series is like being married to a sex-starved super model........with a 500 dollar a day crack habit". So true.
I finally wised up and traded it in for my LS. Is it as fun to drive as my 7 Series? Not quite, but the excitement of the 7 is drama I can do without
I traded it in (with 90k miles on it), for 7k dollars. Highest depreciation I've ever seen or experienced. I don't miss her one little bit. You will never see a used 7 series being sold at a reputable dealership here because they know what they'll face from their customers after they drive it off the lot. But if you go to an auction or wholesaler, you'll have your pick of many.
On a similar note to the Forbes article was Time magazine's "50 Worst Cars Ever Made". The BMW 7 was in there alongside AMC Pacer and Edsel. Congrats BMW.
I will NEVER again own a German car. I still have our BMW X5, and am only keeping it because it can tow my boat and has been less trouble-prone recently after spending a ton of money fixing it (bushings, oil leaks, transmission leaks, coolant leaks, electrical problems). Still leaks fluids like a 100 year old senior in Depends, but I can deal with that for now.
Indeed to each his own, but what about informed purchasing?
A friend of mine has a brother who owns a BMW repair shop and said that he does very, very well!! Stays busy. Always has vehicles to work on and often times multiple vehicles at once. Told me recently about an 08 model needing g a new motor...
I just don't get it...
05-04-15, 09:16 AM
#6
BMW has failed to do what every ambitious manufacture has tried to achieve and that is to build a peoples luxury car.
There are exclusive luxury only cars like Bugatti and Royals Royce which are generally low production and for the ultra rich that don't really count.
The standard is the Old Cadillac. Only Mercedes S class and Lexus LS has archived this goal and kept it.
BMW is a small car manufacture and that is what they do best. Like Honda they tried to put their hand into the ultra luxury class and failed miserably because it's not an easy thing to do. Honda went so far to throw in the towel in the late 90s when they abandon their V8 production engine.
I have seen several references on major TV shows that describe Lexus as an adjective so I think that goal has been met .
There are exclusive luxury only cars like Bugatti and Royals Royce which are generally low production and for the ultra rich that don't really count.
The standard is the Old Cadillac. Only Mercedes S class and Lexus LS has archived this goal and kept it.
BMW is a small car manufacture and that is what they do best. Like Honda they tried to put their hand into the ultra luxury class and failed miserably because it's not an easy thing to do. Honda went so far to throw in the towel in the late 90s when they abandon their V8 production engine.
I have seen several references on major TV shows that describe Lexus as an adjective so I think that goal has been met .
05-04-15, 12:41 PM
#7
I've never owned a BMW 7 series but my neighbor had a 2008 and it was always in the repair shop. He traded it in for a new Buick La Crosse.
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05-04-15, 02:41 PM
#8
05-04-15, 05:54 PM
#9
BMW to me is more of a performance car than a luxury car. Exteriors of some of the models look very good/handsome, but I never feel inviting and classy when taking a seat inside. It feels "cold" and hard to the touch. On some older BMW, and especially when the interior is not well cared for, I literally want to throw up. In contrast, I always find Lexus interiors welcoming and refining, even in the back seats.
I do also think people choose to drive a BMW for reasons I don't consider very smart. Grant it many BMW are better performance-wise than many comparable same class vehicles, there aren't that many things a BMW can do that another comparable car can't do (within the framework of being responsible drivers, sharing the roads, obeying traffic laws, being courteous to other drivers, etc., of course). Thus, choosing a BMW is choosing impractical performance (things that are only more beneficial on a track), and in the process give up practical, must-have reasons such as dependability, reliability, lower cost, lower maintenance, (and personally to me luxury and refinement).
Speaking of cost, let say a monthly lease payment of a 7-series is about $100 (just a #) more than that of a LS. Is this $100 more means the 7-series is $100 a month better in the car itself? Is this a $100 worth of a better car? I am not so sure. We all know, along with other factors, monthly lease payment is based on how much the car is worth when the lease ends. And we all agree a 7-series resale value are very very bad. So I would like to think a better part of that $100 difference is due to the making up of how low the resale value is, for the dealer/BMW.
To exaggerate this thought further, because I am paying more to lease a BMW due to its low resale value, I can't help but to think that I AM also paying paying now for somebody else to drive that BMW after me. That person though got the used car cheap, he will end up paying more for later problems. I am the smartest person? Hell NO. But am I also stupid enough to pay for someone else's car? I would like to think not.
As a supplemental income, in the past I used to go to car auction to purchase clean-titled cars, then I would fixed, cleaned, replaced broken parts, clear up codes, tuned up, then wait for DMV title to arrive and I would sell the cars to make some profits. Most of the cars I did were Japanese 90's sports cars like 300z TT, 3000gt vr-4, mr2 turbo, etc. etc. My bread and butter were the many many Integra's and late 90's Accord. The most profit I made was about $6k on a 93 RX-7 TT. The ONLY non-Japanse car I ever did, and also the ONLY car I ended up lost money on, and the longest time it took to sell.....(wait for it)....was a mid 90's BMW 540i.
I don't think highly of Bimmers
I do also think people choose to drive a BMW for reasons I don't consider very smart. Grant it many BMW are better performance-wise than many comparable same class vehicles, there aren't that many things a BMW can do that another comparable car can't do (within the framework of being responsible drivers, sharing the roads, obeying traffic laws, being courteous to other drivers, etc., of course). Thus, choosing a BMW is choosing impractical performance (things that are only more beneficial on a track), and in the process give up practical, must-have reasons such as dependability, reliability, lower cost, lower maintenance, (and personally to me luxury and refinement).
Speaking of cost, let say a monthly lease payment of a 7-series is about $100 (just a #) more than that of a LS. Is this $100 more means the 7-series is $100 a month better in the car itself? Is this a $100 worth of a better car? I am not so sure. We all know, along with other factors, monthly lease payment is based on how much the car is worth when the lease ends. And we all agree a 7-series resale value are very very bad. So I would like to think a better part of that $100 difference is due to the making up of how low the resale value is, for the dealer/BMW.
To exaggerate this thought further, because I am paying more to lease a BMW due to its low resale value, I can't help but to think that I AM also paying paying now for somebody else to drive that BMW after me. That person though got the used car cheap, he will end up paying more for later problems. I am the smartest person? Hell NO. But am I also stupid enough to pay for someone else's car? I would like to think not.
As a supplemental income, in the past I used to go to car auction to purchase clean-titled cars, then I would fixed, cleaned, replaced broken parts, clear up codes, tuned up, then wait for DMV title to arrive and I would sell the cars to make some profits. Most of the cars I did were Japanese 90's sports cars like 300z TT, 3000gt vr-4, mr2 turbo, etc. etc. My bread and butter were the many many Integra's and late 90's Accord. The most profit I made was about $6k on a 93 RX-7 TT. The ONLY non-Japanse car I ever did, and also the ONLY car I ended up lost money on, and the longest time it took to sell.....(wait for it)....was a mid 90's BMW 540i.
I don't think highly of Bimmers
05-04-15, 07:11 PM
#10
The 7 series sucked from day one. I had one and it never went a month without going to the dealer at least once. It was either broken & waiting to be picked up, just back from being fixed or in that golden hour where it was running great and nothing was wrong. It was like playing golf - every day you're ready to hang it up and take up another game and then you hit that one drive that makes that sweet "tink" off the club head and it goes dead straight for 250 yards and you're dragged back in again. The 750 was like that.
There's a reason service is included.
My Benz was better but not nearly as solid as my Lexus. While some folks say "never own a German car that's out of warranty" although they're safe from the $$$ of repairs they rack up an awful lot of time in the dealer's waiting room and are hugely inconvenienced. The upside is you get to drive nearly ever car in the dealer's line up as loaners
There's a reason service is included.
My Benz was better but not nearly as solid as my Lexus. While some folks say "never own a German car that's out of warranty" although they're safe from the $$$ of repairs they rack up an awful lot of time in the dealer's waiting room and are hugely inconvenienced. The upside is you get to drive nearly ever car in the dealer's line up as loaners
05-05-15, 09:16 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Last year at the Vancpuver International Auto Show, the BC BMW Rep, said, "BMW's are great for business people who want to lease for 2-3 years and then get into another lease. We then sell that car as a CPO for a few years"......(or words to that effect). Although they didn't come right out and say it, it was pretty clear that they wouldn't trust the car after that.
I also had two BMW Specialty shops tell me that the BMW 7 Series was "disposable". They strongly urged me to get rid of it ASAP. I didn't, but they were right and I should have.
I also had two BMW Specialty shops tell me that the BMW 7 Series was "disposable". They strongly urged me to get rid of it ASAP. I didn't, but they were right and I should have.
05-05-15, 09:53 AM
#12
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Last year at the Vancpuver International Auto Show, the BC BMW Rep, said, "BMW's are great for business people who want to lease for 2-3 years and then get into another lease. We then sell that car as a CPO for a few years"......(or words to that effect). Although they didn't come right out and say it, it was pretty clear that they wouldn't trust the car after that.
I also had two BMW Specialty shops tell me that the BMW 7 Series was "disposable". They strongly urged me to get rid of it ASAP. I didn't, but they were right and I should have.
I also had two BMW Specialty shops tell me that the BMW 7 Series was "disposable". They strongly urged me to get rid of it ASAP. I didn't, but they were right and I should have.
From what i read many German components are outsourced to China and some parts of South East Asia. This is not to say the quality necessarily suffers but total operating costs are saved tremendously.
Then BMW packages it up under their marque, push an aggressive leasing and CPO program and the car is good as expired after that. It could be that their business model is what works for them even though their brand gets a bit damaged in the process but at least the share holders will be happy with the immediate outcome.
Lexus on the other hand has a business model of manufacturing in house to make sure quality is consistent and reputation is sustained for the long game. It is the arrogance of family name and tradition that keeps then a bit honest.
I think the future will yield recyclable cars especially with newer manufacturing technologies like 3D printing.
05-05-15, 10:47 AM
#13
It very sad that a vehicle that pretty doesn't last that long . But it makes perfect sense .
Germans make cars that don't last long, this way people keep buying cars.
Besides, people who by them new don't keep them longer than few years. It's the unfortunate people who buy them afterwards who get stuck with a car that's basically worthless.
I really wanted a s550 sport, but I just didn't want to deal with a headache.
Germans make cars that don't last long, this way people keep buying cars.
Besides, people who by them new don't keep them longer than few years. It's the unfortunate people who buy them afterwards who get stuck with a car that's basically worthless.
I really wanted a s550 sport, but I just didn't want to deal with a headache.
05-05-15, 11:39 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Wants some entertainment? Click here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=126
Scroll down and look at all the issues.....from overheating transmissions to oil consumption and coolant loss. And that is just the E65 threads. The F01 threads are no better.
There is much discussion on those BMW forums asking the question whether or not BMW will survive the rep that they are getting. The answer was basically what I said earlier..... as long as people continue to lease for 2-3 years and keep trading up for a new lease, they will. A good example of that is Land Rover. One of the worst vehicles ever in terms of reliability, but people still want them.
Scroll down and look at all the issues.....from overheating transmissions to oil consumption and coolant loss. And that is just the E65 threads. The F01 threads are no better.
There is much discussion on those BMW forums asking the question whether or not BMW will survive the rep that they are getting. The answer was basically what I said earlier..... as long as people continue to lease for 2-3 years and keep trading up for a new lease, they will. A good example of that is Land Rover. One of the worst vehicles ever in terms of reliability, but people still want them.
05-05-15, 11:44 AM
#15
Pole Position