satiger

iTrader: (1)

I just did the oil analysis on my LS. I used Wix kit that was purchased from Amazon.

Miles : 36k miles
Oil type : Toyota 0W-20 full synthetic oil
Filter : Toyota filter

Oil history on this vehicle:
Last two oil changes (including this one) were done using Toyota 0w-20 full syn oil. Based on Lexus history, previous owner used same oil except one.

Did oil analysis on my 2000 ES (245k miles) which can be found at : https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...ml#post9103907

Devh

Thanks for doing this and I'm very happy you got this done from a different lab then Blackstone because it lays credibility to what this oil can do.

Your oil analysis and roadfrogs last one are nearly identical. Extremely low wear numbers except for one which I think is contamination and that is the unusually high titanium levels. Our engines do not use Titanium components like the 2ur-gse and even if it did it's still unusual to be that high.

The TBN is very strong and it can easily go 10k miles. The viscosity is well within grade as if it had only 3k miles on the oil.
I really like this report and the fact that you got this done from a different lab confirms a trend that is positive, I think it has everything to do with the additive package.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

I agree Dev, based on TBN and viscosity Toyota oil can easily go past 5K interval. Just for the factory warranty purpose, I will keep it at 5K interval and then will go with extended OCI.

I am currently using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20. Compare to other oils, its expensive and hard to find. However, there are lots of positive reviews on this oil. I have a feeling that it might out perform Toyota full synthetic on TBN and viscosity. I will test and post the report here.

I can assert that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 makes my GX runs much quitter and smoother compare to other oils that I have tried in the past including Toyota oil, Castrol Edge and M1 high mileage full syn. However I couldn't observe any similar changes in LS with Penn Ultra Platinum. Again I don't drive LS that often, more of a weekend car at the moment.

Devh

I too am using Pennzoil Platinum in my other car for the last six years and although I never got an oil analysis it has cleaned up all of the varnish from the dino oil that was used before.
I doubt the PP will outperform the Toyota motor oil simply because Toyota has doubled up on the moly which is why your report is showing ridiculously low metal wear numbers that is lays into question if it's the oil or if the engine is not hard on oil. If you have extended the oil drain interval I suspect that the wear would further be arrested as long as there is enough active ingredient.

Please run the PP next time as I would really like to see the report.
What I would like to see is Toyota oil at 10k as that would give anyone confidence.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

Just happened to see a marketing commercial by Pennzoil on Ultra Platinum (take it with a grain of salt) : .

Will this cleaning power eventually causes seals to thin/dry out and leak?. Any input?.

According to Pennzoil commercial on youtube:

Devh

Actually just the opposite. The cleaning power of the esters in synthetic oil keeps depot formation from accumulating on the seals and the rubber is always lubricated so that it doesn't dry out.

However some people that switch to synthetic oil from running dino oil for many miles have noticed engine leaks. What actually happens is the varnish and deposits accumulate from the dino oil on the seals over time and acts as a barrier to the oil. The seals dry up and shrink but do not leak for a very long time because the deposits hold it together. When one changes to synthetic oil it will start cleaning the deposits and you will have leaks.
If the leak is not bad enough the synthetic oil will rejuvenate the seal causing it to swell and stop the leak but in most cases gaskets will need replacing.
This is one of the primary reasons why you want to run synthetic oil if you plan to keep your car for a long time.

Devh

In that commercial they talk about the importance of a high viscosity index and I agree it's one of the holy grails of engine oil quality.
Pennzoil product sits at 173
Toyota synthetic sits at 216
That's a large difference.

7milesout

PURE speculation. Which I suspect is not actually true.

PURE speculation. There could be many other reasons for low metal wear numbers.

I like a good discussion as much as the next guy. But there are facts, and then there are, "facts." I prefer the ones without the quotes.

Devh

The dino deposits creating false gaskets is well documented. It has always been a concern when switching to synthetic oil in a high millage car. It doesn't happen in every car but it is an area of concern. I have experienced a catastrophic failure switching to synthetic oil after an engine was run up to 80k on dino where the deposits from the dino oil clogged up the galleries. I have discussed this in detail with a tribologist and it was his opinion that some very high millage cars should be switched out to synthetic cautiously or not at all. I have also seen the difference first hand between the internals of engines run on dino oil and it is very telling how much varnish build up and depots are present vs cars run exclusively on synthetic. The difference is more then compelling but that is my opinion. I would like to see "facts" white papers if you have them that say otherwise.


In regard to low wear numbers it is all speculation backed up by oil analysis. Bob is the oil guy is also speculation too but it is one that is backed up by used oil analysis and a lot of discussion. I never stated it as fact.
All of my commentary is speculation and so is yours which is just stating the obvious. When I link to a white paper it becomes the closest thing to fact but it too is speculation drawn from test data.
The fact that I draw speculation does not invalidate the view point it's only an opinion in the realm of whats probable.

It would be better for the sake of argument to point out what you see on the oil analysis that you don't agree with and why, then just just simply pointing out it's speculation which is obviously so. If you want to make the argument that the oil analysis proves nothing that would be fine too but why, with an educated opinion that I can build on to further my own knowledge.

If we want to compare which oil is better this is the best way to do so. Not following one oil analysis but trends from other peoples car running the same oil and competing oil, and as a bonus a report from a different lab to further validate.

Devh

[QUOTE=7milesout;9105656]PURE speculation. Which I suspect is not actually true.

In regard to my other car (Honda Accord ) it is fact that I have seen first hand the varnish build up that was due to running dino oil for 60k miles completely clean off from the camshaft and the varnish etching on the dipstick. This is not the first car I have observed this happen.

Devh

Although this is advertising these ASTM testing facilities are generally certified. The claims from the manufacture has to be held up to scrutiny and can be taken to task by the federal trade commission.

This is exactly what I experienced and the oil I used before the change was Castrol GTX which is one of the better quality conventional oils on the market. I did not use Kendal or whatever was cheapest.

I wash my hands off speculation and now it's on the manufactures and without testing to prove otherwise it's purely speculation on your part to suspect claims are not true.

darksands

Local dealership told me they would use Pennzoil 5-20 if I did an oil change. I've always used Mobil11 0w-20 EP and have no issues.

7milesout

Oh, well that changes everything ... I'm sold.

That cute graph doesn't represent Hyundai engines. But it sure looks nice. Hyundai engines start out lower than that graph depicts (due to (primarily) machining contamination that doesn't get thoroughly washed out), and increase in cleanliness after the first oil change (due to the oil capturing contiminates). I worked at the plant where the engines were built, I worked with the guys who reviewed warranty claims, I worked with the guys who made counter-measures for the issues uncovered, I worked with the guys who made presentations to the Plant Manager regarding said issues, while I made presentations regarding my responsible area. I now work with Marketing folks, and let me tell you ... Marketing folks are VERY creative and oh so optimistic. Their goal is to SELL, they care far more to get their bonuses than they do to be completely accurate.

Devh

Hyundai doesn't hot tank their components after machining. All engines shed metal during the break in process but if you are referring to the cutting oils I find it hard to believe that doesn't get cleaned up before assembly unless it the oils used leave a layer of varnish build up behind due to oxidation.

I agree that advertising is always suspect however their claim of keeping engines clean is not specific to PP as many other synthetic oils have this property of keeping engines clean primarily because the oil does not have any impurities like wax and it's better resistance to oxidation in the presence of heat which is the precursors of resins in varnish and sludge .

7milesout

"I find it hard to believe..." is muttered very frequently at the Hyundai plant. It's a magical place. It would amaze you some of the tricks that the Koreans pull. They have all the modern equipment that money can buy. But suffers from lack of discipline to completely follow a process ... especially when they've gotten behind and need to speed up.

As for synthetic versus petroleum. I'm 100% in agreement that synthetic is better. I also think we have to believe an oil analysis ... but i've seen some verbage that makes me wonder.