New LS to arrive as '17 model, targets XJ and Panamera.
#16
Just as a point of clarification...the LS is the #3 vehicle in the segment, it outsells the A8 and the XJ, and before the redesign it traded the #2 spot with the 7 Series.
Low sales figures are just the reality in this segment now. Even the S Class only does maybe 40-50% of the volume it used to.
Low sales figures are just the reality in this segment now. Even the S Class only does maybe 40-50% of the volume it used to.
S- 25,276
A8- 6,566
BMW7- 5,307
LS- 173
*The S nearly doubled its 2013 sales. Please feel free to share your sources. If you want to see a phenomenon, check the 1999 s-class "fair-well model" sales. As previously mentioned: the model had outstanding handling; all while being softly sprung & sold a lot of cars in its exit year.
http://left-lane.com/european-car-sa...exus/lexus-ls/
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2014/11/...omotive-sales/
Last edited by superdenso; 12-15-15 at 12:56 PM.
#17
My source is posed in the Car Chat forum every month. All the manufacturers us sales are posted there. They're also on Wikipedia for every model you want to see.
The LS has never sold well at all in Europe, Lexus as a brand doesn't do very well in Europe. I'm talking now about US sales, I don't really care about foreign sales from the scope of Lexus.
My point is, and it's a valid point whether you choose to accept it or not, the large luxury car segment is a fraction of what it used to be. While LS sales are down no question, for it to remain in 2nd/3rd position (which is what it's always been) as old as it is is a good thing, not a bad thing.
If you dislike your LS or want some Mercedes or something, buy one.
The LS has never sold well at all in Europe, Lexus as a brand doesn't do very well in Europe. I'm talking now about US sales, I don't really care about foreign sales from the scope of Lexus.
My point is, and it's a valid point whether you choose to accept it or not, the large luxury car segment is a fraction of what it used to be. While LS sales are down no question, for it to remain in 2nd/3rd position (which is what it's always been) as old as it is is a good thing, not a bad thing.
If you dislike your LS or want some Mercedes or something, buy one.
#19
Theres no way to address anything else I said because they are all facts..
#20
Anyone with a computer can check the data.
Definition of FACT for Kids. 1. : something that really exists or has occurred
Last edited by superdenso; 12-16-15 at 08:16 AM.
#21
Lexus and the LS specifically were designed for the US market. When compared worldwide of course the LS is not a major player. That's not new, it never has been. I'm talking about US sales. As usual you keep spitting stuff out that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
#22
Large car sales are better than ever
Lexus and the LS specifically were designed for the US market. When compared worldwide of course the LS is not a major player. That's not new, it never has been. I'm talking about US sales. As usual you keep spitting stuff out that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
Refute my statement that overall large luxury car sales are down from their peak about 10 years ago. Otherwise you're just wasting bandwidth.
Further, Lexus is addressing their world presence as evidenced in their direction: This is an adaptation of MB's formula (although missing a TDI):
V-6-based hybrid
Standard v8
TT V-8 good for 600 horses.
Post#15 is what you believe and is false/S-Class sales were 30% above their avg in 2014 and 60% of those sales were in the US.
Last edited by superdenso; 12-16-15 at 12:08 PM.
#23
This remains to be seen unless I've been living under a rock. There is speculation but nothing confirmed.
#26
Nothing but the facts
MSRP 650 gran Cpe: $90K
MSRP: S7 4.0: 83K
MSRP CLS 550: $74K
MSRP Pano v8: $100K
MSRP LS: $72K
This information is on their websites. The German companies made adjustments: flooded the market with full-size hardware and increased sales substantially.
*Vw actually added 2 full size sedans (Audi7 & Porsche Pana).
Last edited by superdenso; 12-17-15 at 04:02 AM.
#27
MSRP 6 Series: $77K
MSRP: A7: $68K
MSRP CLS: $67K
MSRP Pano: $78K
MSRP LS: $73K
#28
And if you've ever driven any of those cars, as I have, it's clear that their target is not the large luxury car market. They're much tighter, coupe like,harder riding and sportier. It's an entirely separate segment.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
#29
And if you've ever driven any of those cars, as I have, it's clear that their target is not the large luxury car market. They're much tighter, coupe like,harder riding and sportier. It's an entirely separate segment.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
You also can't use the LS as a benchmark in the large luxury car segment as its older, and fairly cheap (I reference the surprise in the other thread at how little my LS cost). Look at the S550 and the 7 Series. They start out at ~$90k+.
That's where the segment is going and the next LS is going to be right there with them price wise I'm sure. Using the numbers you quoted above (I can no longer see superdenso's posts) BMW and MB are clearly placing these new 4 door coupe cars to where they top out around where the full sized cars begin.
He clearly has never sat in or driven any of those cars if he thinks they're designed to compete with cars like the S Class, 7 Series, A8, LS or XJ.
Last things first, start a thread about MB ownership, but spare me the details of ur 15min test drive experience: Stand Down
v8 prices were chosen in my chart. But, the TTv6's at a $6k discount meet/exceed the the LS v8 performance. Those cars are the reasons the current LS has less sales; there's no "phantom" SUV competition. All of the cars listed max out over $100k, BMW exceeds $120 and Porsche $200. Perhaps LS was designed to be 90% of an S, 7, or A8's luxury with 85% of the performance at a discounted price. The response was 4 new German sedans offering 90% of the luxury and 105% of the performance at 75% of the price.
*the MB (S/SL/CL/CLS) class is expensive, beautiful, but has considerably more downtime; I rarely recommend the Benz and often recommend the Lexus. The most important luxury for me is reliability. The 5th gen LS may be the "one".
Last edited by superdenso; 12-17-15 at 11:31 AM.
#30
LF-FC .. could this be the new LS ?
[
Read more here (google translated from Norwegian to English):
https://goo.gl/U2a1bg
A surprising and emotion-evoking design as part of Lexus' drive to exceed conventional imagination. The LF-FC is the latest expression of Lexus' progressive luxury and is a high-tech vision of a not so distant future:
Regards
Arvid
Read more here (google translated from Norwegian to English):
https://goo.gl/U2a1bg
A surprising and emotion-evoking design as part of Lexus' drive to exceed conventional imagination. The LF-FC is the latest expression of Lexus' progressive luxury and is a high-tech vision of a not so distant future:
Regards
Arvid
Last edited by Arvid; 12-21-15 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Inserted link