2013 LS460L - Finally Purchased!
03-01-16, 06:47 AM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank you very much for all the warm wishes, everyone!
I feel right at home on this forum.
I will be posting quite a few separate on all the intricate subjects, please stay tuned.
I appreciate it!
I feel right at home on this forum.
I will be posting quite a few separate on all the intricate subjects, please stay tuned.
I appreciate it!
03-01-16, 07:17 AM
#17
Pole Position
Congrats to you! A beautiful car. A friend of mine traded his 2010 LS/L in for your same model/year car and loves it. I'm sure you will get many years and miles on that beast. Enjoy.
03-09-16, 10:14 PM
#18
Just curious to why didn't you just convert the LWB from air suspension to non air suspension vehicle from a certified dealer.
Hello everyone,
I have spent the last 8 months conducting a (rather exhaustive) search for a 2013 LS.
Yes, it took that long.
Here's why...
My requirements were:
1. Must be a 2013 model (new body style) with AWD (for light snow driving).
2. Must be the LWB (Long Wheel Base) version.
3. Must not have the air suspension (I don't want to deal with the obligatory high-dollar repairs).
4. Must be under 50,000 miles.
5. Must be a certain color combination (black exterior).
6. Must have a good service history (which I can independently check via the Lexus Driver portal).
7. Must have a clean Carfax (not salvage, not reconstructed title, no accidents showing).
8. Must have a build date sometime in 2013 (many 2013 model cars have 2012 build dates... presumably, the later the build date, the better).
9. Must be purchased in-person (no shipping the car).
10. Must be 90% mechanically sound (reasonable wear-and-tear would be fine)... and "reasonably priced" (under $55,000 USD as of early 2015).
Finally, the dream has come true and I picked up the 2013 LS460L with less than 30,000 miles, from a non-Lexus dealer.
The car is long wheel base (LWB) AWD, non-air suspension, with Mark Levinson audio, automatic high beams, 19 inch wheels and rear window sunshade.
After much research, I learned that there's essentially only one package where you can get LWB without air suspension on a 2013 LS... thus all the cars I considered had exactly the same package of features... or so it seemed.
I scanned the LS460 market within 1,000 miles of New York on a daily basis.
It is incredibly hard to find a reasonably priced LWB without air suspension.
I did find a handful of LWB with air suspension for sale by shady side-of-the-road car dealers (think of the types of dealers in gritty neighborhoods with flashing neon signs saying "We Finance Everyone" and "We Speak Urdu"), with clearly broken air suspensions.
Interestingly, used LS460's with air suspension typically go for $5,000 - $8,000 less than a equally equipped non-air suspension LS... with very few exceptions. It must be the repair costs driving down the price of the air-equipped systems, I assume.
It is my opinion, that the LWB non-air suspension package is the "best" configuration if you're planning to keep the car for a long time (which I am planning on).
Thus, my LS460 journey now begins.
I have been active on the ClubLexus forums since 2010 while driving GS, an IS, and an SC430 (also briefly considered an RX350, and GX470, but quickly ruled them both out).
This is just an "introductory" post, although some of you will remember me from the previous 8 months because of all the "pre-purchase" questions I asked.
I certainly appreciate all the help I received here, it enabled me to make a wise decision, thank you!
I will be posting quite a few separate threads on the many items I'd like to discuss with my fellow LS460 owners.
I'm looking forward to great conversations to be had on this fine forum, hopefully for many, many years to come.
Thanks again, everyone!
I have spent the last 8 months conducting a (rather exhaustive) search for a 2013 LS.
Yes, it took that long.
Here's why...
My requirements were:
1. Must be a 2013 model (new body style) with AWD (for light snow driving).
2. Must be the LWB (Long Wheel Base) version.
3. Must not have the air suspension (I don't want to deal with the obligatory high-dollar repairs).
4. Must be under 50,000 miles.
5. Must be a certain color combination (black exterior).
6. Must have a good service history (which I can independently check via the Lexus Driver portal).
7. Must have a clean Carfax (not salvage, not reconstructed title, no accidents showing).
8. Must have a build date sometime in 2013 (many 2013 model cars have 2012 build dates... presumably, the later the build date, the better).
9. Must be purchased in-person (no shipping the car).
10. Must be 90% mechanically sound (reasonable wear-and-tear would be fine)... and "reasonably priced" (under $55,000 USD as of early 2015).
Finally, the dream has come true and I picked up the 2013 LS460L with less than 30,000 miles, from a non-Lexus dealer.
The car is long wheel base (LWB) AWD, non-air suspension, with Mark Levinson audio, automatic high beams, 19 inch wheels and rear window sunshade.
After much research, I learned that there's essentially only one package where you can get LWB without air suspension on a 2013 LS... thus all the cars I considered had exactly the same package of features... or so it seemed.
I scanned the LS460 market within 1,000 miles of New York on a daily basis.
It is incredibly hard to find a reasonably priced LWB without air suspension.
I did find a handful of LWB with air suspension for sale by shady side-of-the-road car dealers (think of the types of dealers in gritty neighborhoods with flashing neon signs saying "We Finance Everyone" and "We Speak Urdu"), with clearly broken air suspensions.
Interestingly, used LS460's with air suspension typically go for $5,000 - $8,000 less than a equally equipped non-air suspension LS... with very few exceptions. It must be the repair costs driving down the price of the air-equipped systems, I assume.
It is my opinion, that the LWB non-air suspension package is the "best" configuration if you're planning to keep the car for a long time (which I am planning on).
Thus, my LS460 journey now begins.
I have been active on the ClubLexus forums since 2010 while driving GS, an IS, and an SC430 (also briefly considered an RX350, and GX470, but quickly ruled them both out).
This is just an "introductory" post, although some of you will remember me from the previous 8 months because of all the "pre-purchase" questions I asked.
I certainly appreciate all the help I received here, it enabled me to make a wise decision, thank you!
I will be posting quite a few separate threads on the many items I'd like to discuss with my fellow LS460 owners.
I'm looking forward to great conversations to be had on this fine forum, hopefully for many, many years to come.
Thanks again, everyone!
03-10-16, 06:51 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by alir1983
Just curious to why didn't you just convert the LWB from air suspension to non air suspension vehicle from a certified dealer.
03-10-16, 08:39 AM
#20
Pit Crew
To me, this is the cheapest way of owning a high end vehicle especially with the air suspension. If anything goes bad, it would be fixed by the company. After 7 years, probably another 200k plus miles, it would be time to let it go.
03-10-16, 11:38 AM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Out of curiosity, how much did it cost to expend the warranty for 7 years?
I could be wrong, but I feel like "CPO" is a bit of a gimmick when it comes to a Lexus... because you can be fairly certain that nothing major will go wrong while it's covered... after all, it is a Lexus.
During my recent car search, I have also found that the CPO designation will bump the price by anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 over a non-CPO car in the used car market.
The trouble is, it's difficult to find a late-model used LS that's both reasonably priced and for sale by a non-Lexus dealer... if a Lexus dealer gets a hold of it they'll "certify it" and charge the premium.
I could be wrong, but I feel like "CPO" is a bit of a gimmick when it comes to a Lexus... because you can be fairly certain that nothing major will go wrong while it's covered... after all, it is a Lexus.
During my recent car search, I have also found that the CPO designation will bump the price by anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 over a non-CPO car in the used car market.
The trouble is, it's difficult to find a late-model used LS that's both reasonably priced and for sale by a non-Lexus dealer... if a Lexus dealer gets a hold of it they'll "certify it" and charge the premium.
That's correct. Plus if you buy a certified vehicle, you can extend the warranty upto 7 years unlimited miles from the date of purchase. That's what I did.
To me, this is the cheapest way of owning a high end vehicle especially with the air suspension. If anything goes bad, it would be fixed by the company. After 7 years, probably another 200k plus miles, it would be time to let it go.
To me, this is the cheapest way of owning a high end vehicle especially with the air suspension. If anything goes bad, it would be fixed by the company. After 7 years, probably another 200k plus miles, it would be time to let it go.
03-10-16, 11:54 AM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
Also, in case anyone is wondering, while I was shopping I also considered buying an LS from the wholesale auction (through a friend who's a licensed dealer).
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
Last edited by jasone36; 03-10-16 at 12:20 PM.
03-10-16, 05:11 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Also, in case anyone is wondering, while I was shopping I also considered buying an LS from the wholesale auction (through a friend who's a licensed dealer).
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
03-10-16, 07:36 PM
#24
Pit Crew
Out of curiosity, how much did it cost to expend the warranty for 7 years?
I could be wrong, but I feel like "CPO" is a bit of a gimmick when it comes to a Lexus... because you can be fairly certain that nothing major will go wrong while it's covered... after all, it is a Lexus.
During my recent car search, I have also found that the CPO designation will bump the price by anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 over a non-CPO car in the used car market.
The trouble is, it's difficult to find a late-model used LS that's both reasonably priced and for sale by a non-Lexus dealer... if a Lexus dealer gets a hold of it they'll "certify it" and charge the premium.
I could be wrong, but I feel like "CPO" is a bit of a gimmick when it comes to a Lexus... because you can be fairly certain that nothing major will go wrong while it's covered... after all, it is a Lexus.
During my recent car search, I have also found that the CPO designation will bump the price by anywhere from $4,000 to $7,000 over a non-CPO car in the used car market.
The trouble is, it's difficult to find a late-model used LS that's both reasonably priced and for sale by a non-Lexus dealer... if a Lexus dealer gets a hold of it they'll "certify it" and charge the premium.
If I remember correctly, the price is cheaper if your L/certified vehicle is still within original factory warranty of 4yr /50k miles. My 2011 was out of that warranty because of years, so I have to pay a higher cost
04-01-16, 10:49 AM
#25
Pole Position
Attachment 383127
Last edited by comotiger; 04-13-16 at 07:06 PM.
04-01-16, 10:54 AM
#26
Pole Position
I paid $3525 for additional 5 yr unlimited mile warranty for a 2011 L / Certified LS 460L. The car came with 2 yr unlimited warranty. Thus extending my warranty to 7 yrs unlimited miles. For me its a win win situation as I typically put in excess of 35 k miles per year. I bought the vehicle 4 weeks ago at 26k miles and I have already put in approx. 4k miles already.
If I remember correctly, the price is cheaper if your L/certified vehicle is still within original factory warranty of 4yr /50k miles. My 2011 was out of that warranty because of years, so I have to pay a higher cost
If I remember correctly, the price is cheaper if your L/certified vehicle is still within original factory warranty of 4yr /50k miles. My 2011 was out of that warranty because of years, so I have to pay a higher cost
Attachment 383128
Last edited by comotiger; 04-13-16 at 07:06 PM.
04-01-16, 11:12 AM
#27
Pole Position
Also, in case anyone is wondering, while I was shopping I also considered buying an LS from the wholesale auction (through a friend who's a licensed dealer).
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
We bid on a few cars via Manheim OVE wholesale online bidding, but I lost them all (was outbid).
In a few instances, I kept an eye on the VIN numbers of the cars I lost out on, just to see how much they would fetch on the retail market.
In both instances, if a car sold at the auction (wholesale) in the low 40Ks, the purchasing dealer would try to "retail" it for around the mid 50Ks... with only doing so much as a $300 auto detail job.
They typically try to make anywhere from $10,000 to $14,000 on a used 2013 LS.
I've also seen instances where a Lexus dealer would scoop up a low-mileage car at the wholesale auction with some light cosmetic damage (nothing major, obviously), spend about $1,000 "cleaning it up", then "certifying it", and finally "retailing" it as a CPO car, all while trying to fetch a very sizable premium.
My previous car was a 2012 LS SWB CPO. The Lexus dealer was selling it for 6K below KBB/NADA prices, which was an awesome deal, and I bought it last year. Checked out fine on Carfax. Later, my local Lexus dealer noticed that the front bumper had been repaired with aftermarket parts. When we notified the first dealer, they paid the 3K for getting the front bumper and other things replaced, no questions asked. I suspect they knew of the damage (and an accident) but figured the buyer wouldn't notice the very subtle defects, which I didn't. When I traded in that vehicle last month for a 2014 LS LWB, the used car dealer initially refused to the agreed upon trade-in price because he said the car had been in an accident. I was shocked, but the incident showed up on Autocheck NOT Carfax. But all the damage had been fixed like new, so I got the full price we had agreed upon.
BTW, both the 2012 and 2014 vehicles were purchased at auctions by the dealers.
Attachment 383129
Last edited by comotiger; 04-13-16 at 07:05 PM.
04-01-16, 11:53 AM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
comotiger, since you're familiar with BOTH the SWB and the LWB, can you tell us a bit about the difference in driving dynamics?
Do you feel an actual difference, due to the extra length of the car?
Being a ("new-to-me") 2013 LWB owner, I'd be very curious to hear.
Do you feel an actual difference, due to the extra length of the car?
Being a ("new-to-me") 2013 LWB owner, I'd be very curious to hear.
04-01-16, 12:23 PM
#29
Pole Position
I haven't noticed any difference in dynamics due to length. I loved the 2012 SWB. The 2014 LWB seems a bit quieter. I mostly use the Comfort setting. I have briefly tried the Normal/Eco/Sport+ settings but not long enough to form any impressions. I used High ride height once, but again there was no perceptible difference in handling. I have had the vehicle only a month, so will be experimenting more this summer. Driving all the way to DC!
Attachment 383148
Last edited by comotiger; 04-13-16 at 07:05 PM.
04-01-16, 07:17 PM
#30
Pit Crew
What company did you get your extended warranty from? My 2014 LS is nearing 50K and I have to decide whether to get the Lexus or a 3rd party warranty. Thanks.
Attachment 383128
Attachment 383128