comotiger

What is the optic package? Makes the nav screen invisible??

R Z

I get what your wife is saying about similar interiors. But, to me it's night and day! Much better screen. I never liked how the 430 nav looked like a big ole honkin' clunker stuck on top of a console. For me, the difference in my 430 and my 460 is the feel of luxury and sportiness. The 430 felt like an old man's car(yes I'm an old man!). It was a transitional car between my 400 and 460. Again, just my thoughts.

seanl

Agree with more expensive and perhaps better handling. But as to "Quality far superior'....no way. I've owned all three brands. None are screwed together as well as Lexus LS cars. More features, bells, and whistles, yes of course, if you need all that nonsense...which is going to cause headaches with reliability now and in the future. I wouldn't consider the Germans to be reliable when it comes to electronics.

dlbuckls10

I've owned all three brands and most previous owners, including myself and you are well aware of the headaches and reliability issues associated with owning an Audi, BMW or MB. They are all loaded with bells and whistles that most owners never use, including some on my 460. That's one of the reasons why I own a 460 is because of its reliability but its not perfect. I'm not referring to superior reliability but superior quality of materials. If you have a opportunity to sit in the current Audi, BMW and MB as I did at this year auto show you might have a better understanding. Audi, BMW and MB have taken fit, trim and finish to a whole new level. MB is almost in Bentley territory. Each to their own and just my 2 cents.

roadfrog

Having owned a BMW X5 and a 7 series, I can attest at the beautiful craftsmanship and quality of materials, as well as the driving experience. Those things very quickly lose their appeal when you're sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for something else to break. It was ALWAYS something. Every time a "beep" or "ding" sound went off, or a warning light came on on your dash, you knew you were up for some new adventure in maintenance and repair. It made driving more stressful than those quality materials and over-engineering were worth.

No thanks...and never again.

Tantrix

from a lot of user reviews online, it looks like nothing has changed with european cars. A lot of complaints.

lexus toyota have problems as well, but they dont usually stem from internal parts of the engine and transmission.

problems with audi bmw benz very often come from inside the engine or transmission.

roadfrog

My 7 series was emitting clouds of blue smoke and needed an engine rebuild at 50k miles. This was a common problem among us owners at Bimmerfest. That and numerous other VERY costly issues. Google "coolant pipe 7 series" for another nightmare I had to deal with. I could go on.....lots more VERY expensive issues.

comotiger

My force feedback setting is max (5). Yet, I don't feel much sensation in the joy stick. I recall getting stronger feedback on an 2016 ES (joystick) as well as in RX and NX (the pad on which you run your finger). It's not a biggie, but will get it checked out next time.

SW17LS

Yeah mine feels the same as my GS did

enoch861

The Black Optic package is basically an appearance package. You get things like a black grille, titanium or black rims, blacked out/titanium chrome trim, etc. Basically it gives a more stealthy look to your car.

enoch861

Fit and finish between the two is the same. Material quality between an A8 or S-Class compared to the LS is where you really start noticing the difference - where A8, S-Class, and 7-Series have superior quality in the materials. Otherwise the fit and finish between a brand new LS and A8 for example is about the same.

I remember when I used to hold my breath when turning on my A6... I surprisingly don't do that anymore. I ended up getting used to it. It does help that the car hasn't had any issues that cause the dash to light up like a christmas tree but I definitely know that feeling. Only time I had that sinking feeling was when the ABS module went out and the car kept beeping every single time you came to a stop and started moving again. $400 later, it was fixed.

Tantrix

also with lexus and toyota, troubleshooting and fixing the problema that may occur are a "known quantity". And chances are the fix will be just that, the fix.

with audi bmw benz thats not the case. it's a never ending money pit.

williakz

Nonsense! I've had persistent, unresolved problems with two of four Lexus vehicles I've owned - both LS460s (esp. brake rotors and actuators) while my son's 535i (for 3 years) and my wife's Z4 (for 2 years) have been 100% trouble-free (not a "beep," not a "ding," not a indicator light, not a message - NOTHING!) Oh, and "free" maintenance on the BMWs, to boot.

Tantrix

sometimes miracles happen. Im speaking after warranty period.

but the ls460 actuator is under the enhanced warranty.

williakz

Actually, the grinding, crunching FAILURE of the actuator IS under warranty, but the intensely annoying clicking on brake application/let-up is NOT. Such an actuator is considered by Lexus to be operating within acceptable bounds. "Acceptable" to WHOM is my question. Certainly, not to me...