comotiger

What were the terms of the extended warranty? Is it from Jaguar? It is a lot of money, but if it covered an additional 10 years and 150K or unlimited miles bumper-bumper, that would compare favorably with the best Lexus warranties. Considering the higher repair costs of the XJL, this would be a great value.

Anyways, this one got away. There are lots of XJLs out there, so you may be tempted again before too long.

Littleguy

This made me think of when I was shopping for my LS. I sat in a car with the executive package and thought about how only my kids and people I drove around would enjoy it and I would pay for it so I said no this time, lol, I'm a cheap bastard I guess.

comotiger

Exactly, who's going to drive me around sitting in the back? I am so jealous of my kids . Then again, the pleasure of cruising the interstate watching the scenery glide by, glancing at the various needles and ***** and buttons, listening on the ML, stroking the shift ****, 'nuff said ...

superdenso

Going back over some of the things said about this Jag reveals that you have to review and drive a car for yourself. Asking for information on a competing model forum may not yield objective opinions. A post by situman was neutral and objective. The reviews for the 470hp Jag are stellar on edmunds (opposite for the LS btw) and the reviewers repeatedly mention modern sub 4.5s o-60 times and refinement, especially in the drivetrain that offers "angry mode" and +174moh top speed. Car and Driver calls the XJ a A8, S550 and Bmw KILLER! Then you look at what was posted by respondents to the Op and most of it was about lunch trays and repair fears. The XJ is better than that. To substantial amazement, I've seen the Hyundai-KIA get more affection on CL and no professional has accused that company of being superior to the big 3 in any respect

Driving Review - 2013 Jaguar XJ L Supercharged - In Depth Test Drive - Review - YouTube

Luxofreak

I'm a member of one JAG forum out there, because I was also looking into the XJ-L since 2011. I've read too many horror stories there so I didn't pull the trigger.

My analysis of the XJ is this:

1) It was put in the market too early, with lots of problems at the beginning (2011)
2) Issues with persistent "pop" sun roof noises and premature sunroof rail rust.
3) Obsolete instrument cluster technology, low resolution TFT
4) High road noise levels, stiff ride (2011-2013)
5) No soft close doors
6) Trays for back seat occupants removed after 2012 (available only on top trims now)
7) Misaligned engine hood / not color matched bumper/hood from factory
8) Steep depreciation in years 1 and 2 due to perception of low reliability

For those and other reasons, I decided to not buy one. In the end I've sold my 2007 LS460 and for just under $50K I bought a brand new '16 SRT Challenger, six speed. Now that's a fun car!

greg3852

Nice car! My wife loves the look of them. I had a 72 Charger that I loved years ago, but thats my experience with Dodge. Good luck with the new ride!

Littleguy

My old XF, great car when it worked and you did not have to deal with a JLR dealer.

roadfrog

Superdenso...you keep mentioning "reviews". We get it....reviews are stellar. They should be, based on Jaguar pedigree. What you seem to be missing with our posts has nothing to do with "performance". We're talking about customer satisfaction, reliability, depreciation, cost of ownership, etc. "Better than an LS" depends on what you mean by "better". Drop by the Jag forums and see what they think of their Jags, They feel the same way as 7 owners at Bimmerfest, Every other post there is about something that doesn't work. One thread title is, "throwing in the towel"

It does however seem that things at Jaguar are a tad better than they were 5 years ago and are backing things up with better warranties to allay fears, but I'd wait before sinking that much coin in buying one.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I love Jags too and toyed with the idea of buying one. Test drove an XK and thought seriously about it. One visit to jaguarforums.com changed that. Way too many issues for me. I remeber visiting a mechanic who was working on a Jag XJ. He was yelling and cursing about the car. Calling it a piece of crap and swearing to never take on another Jag repair. Crap was funny.

superdenso

Quote:

They should be, based on Jaguar pedigree.

​
This is exactly the concern with Toyotas strategy with the LS. For instance, the first time I saw a car with LED's (running lights) and the single large grille it was on v10 Audi S6 that could haul tail. The point, afix a nasty grille after the car is capable of nasty performance numbers. Ever wonder why the LFA doesn't have the same front bumper scheme like all the other cars and looks so-sc400 (insert pedigree)?

Quote:

What you seem to be missing with our posts has nothing to do with "performance". We're talking about customer satisfaction, reliability, depreciation, cost of ownership, etc.

Looking at the XJ stats they best the Audi RS6 (0-60@4.5 and 174m/h topspeed). Sometimes a driver wants a 4 door car that's more Lambo than Corolla.

Are the "we-group" people pretending the LS is perfect because after 7years the brake actuator, bogging, control arms, and valve-springs are corrected? We won't address trim, door hinges, wind noise or the occasional engine head swaps at this time

I own an LS because the parts are cheap and readily available. I don't have to wait more than 24hrs for them and special computers are not needed. However, sometimes a little over the top performance is not a bad thing.

Doublebase

I wonder what people see, feel and think after they read our forums? I know personally when I first got here three years ago I was petrified and seriously considered selling my car. All I read was control arm failures, air noise, everything on this car is expensive, it's not a LS430. On and on and on. And it's still like that around here.

Well after almost three years and 70,000 miles of driving, I can tell anyone first hand that the LS 460 is one of the most reliable vehicles I've not only ever owned, but ever seen. Yet it still gets a bad rap from a select few that like to blow even the littlest things way out of proportion. It's as if they have LS460 envy.

All ive ive done to my car is control arms and a wheel bearing--$650 total. Easiest control arms I've ever installed. Never had one single check engine light (135,000 miles on the odometer). Never had one single electrical hiccup with any of the witches or gadgets. Everything works like new. I'm driving around in a nine year old car and it's like the thing is brand new...and it's taking a pounding. Try driving through winters in New England, it's car suicide, yet it almost seems as if this car just loves it. I've driven this thing in a foot of snow - it's rwd - and the thing drive better than my fwd Accord...snow drifts were literally over the roof. Yet it always comes back to a valve spring recall from ten years ago...or control arms that insane dealers charge ridiculous prices for. This may be the most underrated high end luxury vehicle on the used car market. Buy one of these things...find an independent and you'll have one of the biggest values in used car history. My two cents.

Oh and by the way...I love that Jag. The thing is pure sweetness. I could probably live with all the headaches for a year, then I'd sell it and lose my shirt. Every time I see one of those things I think...that thing is the most badass car on the road.

Doublebase

Superdenso, do you own a 460? I honestly don't know. the first question I'd ask - if you do - is why? You obviously have strong feelings against the car.

You mention the valve spring recall. That recall was just what it says it was, a recall. It cost people nothing. It caused virtually zero issues for people that I know of. So let's recap...free...was fixed...never had a problem then or since. Sound about right?

Now let's go to the brake actuator. The brake actuator is covered under an extended warranty, so if yours does break, it's covered free of charge. As for many of us - myself included - we've never had a problem, but I'm hoping I do because I want my new and free actuator.

Wind noise. There's a twenty minute fix for that, everyone knows this.

Control arms. This may be the single biggest overblown thing on the entire internet. Someone could claim they have genuine Bigfoot footage, and the LS control arms would still be more overblown. First off let me just say this, there is not a car in the world that doesn't regularly have front end components wear and need replacement. Just Friday I saw a Chevy pickup that needed two ball joints, a wheel bearing and a tie rod. I saw a Dodge that needed upper and lower control arms...talked to the guy and he said, every other year I end up having to replace one side, it alternates. These are things I see every single day. I probably see ten cars come in a week that need their control arms replaced. You should see what happens to sway bar bushings and links. And tie rods? I swear every car in America is driving around with at least one bad tie rod. And they're expensive to fix...all of them. People are walking out with bills in the thousands. The problem with the LS460 is the dealers have really screwed people on this repair. The repair prices are unheard of for control arms, but there is a solution, aftermarket. It's really that simple.

Bogging down? My car bogs down when I don't put super in it...when I do? It doesn't hesitate. I know this, yet I still do it on occasion because I drive so much.

Heads? Has there been more than three people on this entire site that have had their heads go bad? And I wonder if they were the ones who waited to get their valve spring recall done? I know of one on here who has had his heads replaced and one GS460 owner (and I believe Lexus covered his entire bill despite being way out of warranty). I actually talked to a shop foreman at Lexus about this, he said he's never seen it. Had no clue what I was talking about. I said the head! The heads! Have you ever replaced the heads?? All he could muster was that there was a valve spring recall and he's never seen a head issue.

Door trim? Lexus will replace your panels for free if they are bad. Am I missing something here?

Look the car isn't perfect. There is no such thing. But it is certainly better than the others it's compared to in terms of reliability. I've been to those other forums, it blows my mind what I see. Tranny replacements, rear end replacements, engine replacements, oil consumption, ring jobs, electrical nightmares, on and on. And those people are absolutely thrilled about it all! They consider it minor! I saw a guy on his second transmission and transfer case at 150,000 miles and the guy pretended like that was A ok at that mileage.

My backup vehicle is a Honda Accord, one of the most reliable vehicles ever built. I've replaced...the control arms 3 times, sway bar links five times, a sway bar, the gas tank, evap canister twice, egr valve, O2 sensors, vtec solenoid, front engine mount three times, rear engine mount, valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, four mufflers, power steering rack, four tie rods, radiator, two axles, four calipers, the cradle (it's a defect, they rot out,), heater **** like ten god damn times, IAC motor, and tons upon tons of regular maintenance and tires. The car has 280,000 miles, bought it new and it was driven 90% highway, easy highway. And I was one of the lucky ones who didn't run into the transmission problems that there was a class action suite against Honda for, because almost everyone dealt with that $3,500 repair bill on TOP of all my stuff.

GenXY

I've owned two LS400's, an E430 and an XJS-V12 Coupe. Stating the obvious, Lexus' are smooth, comfortable, reliable and boringly refined. The LS400 should be in history books decades from now as the most reliable car ever built. The Mercedes and Jag, on the other hand, were more fun to drive when you were in "go fast" mode, but otherwise plagued with chronic issues that always began just outside of warranty.

With the 1992 Jag v12, chronic overheating issues were attributed to the car being engineered for UK climate, instead of Texas drought weather. Parts were expensive and repairs required knowledge of which bolts were Metric, which ones were SAE, and which ones were British Standard Whitworth. The car looked and felt like a work of art and drove so smooth.. 12 soup-can sized cylinders churning away is a therapeutic sound to listen to.. but as a daily driver wholly unreliable. Also, even if gas was cheap at the time, 13mpg was a little bit below average.

The Mercedes earned 330k expensive miles before I gave it to my mechanic. It had required the heads to be redone around 200k, and a new transmission at about 280k. The main issues I had revolved around a clunky squeaky front suspension that refused to shut up even after I replaced everything (control arms, ball joints, motor/tranny mounts, end links, bushings, shocks). The silver paint had an issue with flaking away due to a defect in their process for those model years related to the switch to water-based paints. The car devoured tires and brake rotors as well.

If you've never owned a Jag or MB and understand it's not a Toyota, you should be very satisfied with the brief periods of unmarred ownership! I always wanted a 745i but thankfully am too busy now to be constantly tinkering with the car.. so I went back to basics. Lexus fan for life.

superdenso

I own a 460, now you honestly know. My posts are not about my feelings, they are about what takes place. If repeating what happens with the thing is prohibited then you have to alert the moderators. The car is good, but if you want a competing model that can challenge physics, I won't talk you out of it.

Toyota suring-up the product and issuing a recall is a beautiful thing. However, why would a car built after 2000 have wind noise? Toyota is the largest auto manu. on the planet and may have the market on wind tunnels...Ferarri takes their car over there!
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/en/
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fe...nel-30465.html

This was not always the case. My first contact with Lexus service back in 2002 was a pleasure.

Really not informed about the octane situation; never heard of it. I'm referring to the motor acting like an oil change is a bad thing. If it were a corolla or if I built the motor and missed some parts or spec'd it wrong...I would understand.

That head thing is tied to a bogging/sluggish acceleration issue. Do you believe that the issue is limited to post #5 in the thread below? And it only happened once upon a time in Reno?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...e-driving.html

Doublebase

Ok superdenso, now we know you own a 460, I guess my next logical question would be have you experienced the problems you mentioned? Have you had your heads replaced? Have you had problems due to the valve spring recall? Does your car use oil and hesitate after an oil change? Do you have wind noise? Have you ever had it fixed? Have you had your control arms replaced at a Lexus dealer for over $4,000 dollars?

I'm of the opinion - and of course this is just my opinion - that in a forum, where vehicle faults are reported, doesn't represent the vast majority. This is such a small segment of 460 owners. And it's a place where you'll hear these things. My own car has experienced only the control arms and a wheel bearing - that's after 135,000 miles of driving. To me that's insane reliability.

Ive been to a Honda forum before, because I own a Honda, and I learned things there that petrified me about my vehicle. I learned that my engine block was porous and that coolant would leak into the oil system, ruining the engine. People on that site experienced it...not many, but just enough where it was written down and became a permanent blemish. Years later I emded up working with a Honda tech...asked him about the block problem...he had never heard or seen it - and he worked for a Honda dealer. The Internet...these forums, don't tell you how frequent or infrequent certain problems are. And that's a huge part of it.

I understand the car isn't perfect. I understand you aren't saying it's a piece of junk, but you're rehashing issues that either have been resolved (valve spring, brake actuator), or things that don't happen very often (heads, hesitation). And the control arms? My lord! That's something that can be fixed for a $1,000 at an independent shop. You can have virtually your entire front suspension replaced on these cars for around $1,000...you can't even do that in a Hyundai.